Dragon Ball Discussion Thread

^ Yes, I agree with you here. There's something more into the game.
In any case, I believe any scenario without Goku winning is not a good scenario. Really, not to be a fanboy or anything, Goku has lost before, but this is different: you build up for a year what it will be his ultimate form, something that cannot be beaten, then you tell us that Dragon Ball is ending with a big final fight, in which, just at the end, Goku is going to MASTER said ultimate form.

And yet he loses? Again? Dafuq.

This is just bad storytelling.
I knew that Freeza was still there, so I was expecting shit to happen from AT and Toei, but this?

"Oh yes, Goku mastered the ****ing Ultra Instinct that not even the Gods of Destruction have, but you know what, well he falls and loses. Bye".

Even if it is from a cheap shot or not a clean-cut loss, with MUI we should be at a level of power at which things like this should not happen anymore.

Sometimes the hero not winning is good, but sometimes is utterly not. IMHO, this case is the latter and it really ruins and makes meaningless all they have done so far.

Originally posted by Sj_Sharp
^ Yes, I agree with you here. There's something more into the game.

Maybe it will turn out to be a clear-cut win for Jiren... Maybe he will legitimately overpower MUI Goku and that's that.

But to me, the previews imply that something f*cked up is going to happen that ends their battle prematurely... Hence both of them evidently staring at the Zen-Ohs after Goku's elimination like "WTF, guys! Let us finish this!!!"

We'll see, I guess... srug

Alright, so the point of contention seems to be the “match isn’t over yet” part. Based on the context, I’m pretty sure it’s referring to the tournament as a whole, not Goku vs Jiren specifically.

I.e: Goku has been knocked out, but they look at Zen-Oh because U11 hasn’t quite won yet...because Frieza is still out there.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Alright, so the point of contention seems to be the “match isn’t over yet” part. Based on the context, I’m pretty sure it’s referring to the tournament as a whole, not Goku vs Jiren specifically.

I.e: Goku has been knocked out, but they look at Zen-Oh because U11 hasn’t quite won yet...because Frieza is still out there.

Wait if it registered to Jiren that Frieza was still out there, it would make no sense for him to not have his defenses up.

Frieza could death beam Jiren in the back as he’s staring at the Omni-King for all we know. I guess the way I’m reading it is this:

Spoiler:
“Son Goku has fallen from the arena.” I hope we can agree that this means Goku has been eliminated. The spoilers then proceed to say that the U7 spectators are in despair as they fear everything is going to be annihilated (how would they forget about Frieza still being in if he’s the one who caused Goku to be knocked out?). Goku and Jiren then look at the Omni-kings, as both know that the tournament isn’t over yet. In that moment, Frieza death beam’s Jiren. I think that’s the least assumptive interpretation of the spoilers.

EDIT TO LAST POST:

Spoiler:
okay, so the spoilers actually say “it seems like Universe 7 has lost and that everyone will be annihilated,” but it wouldn’t seem like that if Frieza was the one who knocked out Goku, because then we would know that U7 isn’t going to be erased quite yet.

Did I call it, or didn't I? 🙂

You did indeed. 🙂

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Alright, so the point of contention seems to be the “match isn’t over yet” part. Based on the context, I’m pretty sure it’s referring to the tournament as a whole, not Goku vs Jiren specifically.

I.e: Goku has been knocked out, but they look at Zen-Oh because U11 hasn’t quite won yet...because Frieza is still out there.

But like I said, we'll just have to wait and see. Previews are meant to be ambiguous for a reason. 👆

Yea the Frieza sentence imo seem like a completely separate set of context form the staring at Zen-Oh sentence.

I think the confusion is around both sentences coming directly after one another.

But like Galan said above, we just have to wait and see. (Unless more spoilers come out clearing this up). It just seems strange because even full powered Jiren seems to be struggle wit MUI in the episode preview.

Was thinking:

Why can't the angels cut out the middlemen, and just do the job themselves instead of playing nursemaid to these gods?

Seems like pointless red tape.

Jiren defeats Goku and in relief he stands on the edge watching Goku body fall to defeat. Goku ports back to the stand with the other members and both Goku and Jiren looks up at Zeno. Looking up while relieved, watching the Zenos finger reach to press Goku face on the pad in slow motion, a beam of light strikes Jiren in the back who wasn't expecting it. His battered body due to his fight from Goku was unable to withstand the attack. Frieza screams out "I told you I would be the one to defeat you" and hit Jiren with a barrage of beams slowly knocking him off of the ring. Jiren falling in slow motion down to the decided fate of his universe whispers "The strongest has failed" ... gets ported back to the bleachers while the Zenos is raising their hands to wipe their universe clean. Everyone is vanishing one by one with Jiren being the last one to fade off. He looks over at Goku and tells him, "job well done... I am proud to fight against a true warrior like you". Goku smiles, stands up and crotch while Jiren and his universe disappear forever. The camera then points to Frieza who is standing on the edge of the cliff doing his sinister laugh while looking at the Zenos with a smile knowing he is about to get his wish to rule over all.

This is what is going to happen. You all wasted pages typing things over the bible I just wrote. It is set in stone, enjoy.

As much as I like the idea of a Frieza victory and Goku losing, the spoilers might be fake. They've been fake before. Remember when Frieza joined U4 and Yamcha became the 10th member of U7? 😂

Originally posted by cdtm
Was thinking:

Why can't the angels cut out the middlemen, and just do the job themselves instead of playing nursemaid to these gods?

Seems like pointless red tape.

The Angels' primary purpose is attending to, and training, their respective Hakaishin.

Seems like kind of a waste, though.

The gods of destruction are all terrible people. Lazy, petty, needing constant prodding just to do their basic duties.

And keeping those nitwits in line is the angel classes entire lives? Can you say hell for eternity?

They can't even die or get erased with their universes, they just exist to serve. Being an angel kind of sucks.

Wow never thought of it that way. Yea that is a shitty existence for sure.

When you think about it, it's no wonder so many angels acted casually about their charges getting erased.

I'd imagine knowing they could get erased at any time would cause you to try and avoid any attachments..

Originally posted by cdtm
Seems like kind of a waste, though.

The gods of destruction are all terrible people. Lazy, petty, needing constant prodding just to do their basic duties.

And keeping those nitwits in line is the angel classes entire lives? Can you say hell for eternity?

They can't even die or get erased with their universes, they just exist to serve. Being an angel kind of sucks.

But yeah, from an outside perspective it's a shit job for sure... Though I think Daishinkan has it the worst by FAR. One Zen-Oh is bad enough, but now he has TWO of them to care for. F*cking hell... 😑

Originally posted by Sj_Sharp
^ Yes, I agree with you here. There's something more into the game.
In any case, I believe any scenario without Goku winning is not a good scenario. Really, not to be a fanboy or anything, Goku has lost before, but this is different: you build up for a year what it will be his ultimate form, something that cannot be beaten, then you tell us that Dragon Ball is ending with a big final fight, in which, just at the end, Goku is going to MASTER said ultimate form.

And yet he loses? Again? Dafuq.

This is just bad storytelling.
I knew that Freeza was still there, so I was expecting shit to happen from AT and Toei, but this?

"Oh yes, Goku mastered the ****ing Ultra Instinct that not even the Gods of Destruction have, but you know what, well he falls and loses. Bye".

Even if it is from a cheap shot or not a clean-cut loss, with MUI we should be at a level of power at which things like this should not happen anymore.

Sometimes the hero not winning is good, but sometimes is utterly not. IMHO, this case is the latter and it really ruins and makes meaningless all they have done so far.

👆 Agreed.

It's like SSJ Goku losing to Frieza at Namek. It's just poor storytelling.

With all the hype and time put into building this thing up, yeah. It's not like Cell Saga, where the point was building up Gohan. Or Buu Saga, which was meant to bring the series to a close and fit in every cameo it can. Even Battle of the Gods was just the start of something, so losing to Beerus made sense.