Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
I’m gonna be honest, I didn’t find this chapter THAT atrocious, especially compared to some of the other ones. Goku seemingly going Kaioken MSSJB is dope.
Apparently it's not KaioKen proper, but Goku using something about SSB to produce results similar to KaioKen. Meaning Vegeta might be able to pull this off, too.
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZSame.
I'm gonna be honest, I didn't find this chapter THAT atrocious, especially compared to some of the other ones. Goku seemingly going Kaioken MSSJB is dope.
Random as it is, I do not at all mind Gohan stalemating Kefla. Becoming randomly OP was ALWAYS his gimmick until DBS took a steaming shit on his character, so I'm glad to see Toriyama finally give him some [albeit asinine] respect.
Roshi's faux-UI asspull doesn't sit too terribly well with me, but again, it seemed like more of an homage to Roshi as a teacher/master, so again, I don't have a huge problem with it in the scheme of things. Toriyama made it clear that DBS-era Roshi is a different animal entirely than the pervy comedic relief he always was in Z... Evidently he could have operated in such a capacity at any time if he chose to. /shrug
Originally posted by NewGuy01Goku himself never refers to it as KaioKen, but his peanut gallery in the bleachers do make that comparison. Jiren compares it to Kale's bulky/LSSJ transformation, saying both make the mistake of raising power without regard to the toll on the body.
Apparently it's not KaioKen proper, but Goku using something about SSB to produce results similar to KaioKen. Meaning Vegeta might be able to pull this off, too.
The whole point of the scene is that Goku tries to break through his limits by forcibly raising his power(which doesn't work.) Roshi then comments that it's not all about raw power, and demonstrates by dodging a few of Jiren's attacks before losing. This gives Goku the hint he needs to briefly access UI.
Originally posted by cdtmYou guys are going WAY overboard here, lol. While Beerus and Whis do compare Roshi's movements to UI, they also note that there is still a BIG gap between that and the real thing.
I've been saying UI would vault the weakest human up there all along. Everyone laughed. 👆
Granted Roshi dodged a few strikes from Jiren(who is very obviously holding back IMMENSELY as to not kill the guy by accident), but once Jiren realized what was going on, he effortlessly dodged Roshi's attack and took him out with a casual chop:
So yeah... That's why I'm not as upset by this as some seem to be. /shrug
Oh, and U6 is erased in this chapter if you guys didn't already know. Its erasure feels pretty hollow, though.
Originally posted by Dark-KenshinNot entirely sure what you're saying here, but obviously Jiren was holding back immensely against Roshi as to not inadvertently kill him. Roshi was able to dodge a few of Jiren's vastly suppressed physical attacks by randomly approximating a faux version of UI. Once Jiren saw through this gimmick, however, he swatted Roshi away casually.
Logically, Jiren wouldn't need to dodge Roshi's attacks in order NOT to kill him by accident.
Not saying it still isn't a laughably absurd outlier showing for Roshi, but it's hardly the "Z0MG!!11!!! Roshi can now beat anyone this side of teh Jirenz!!!111!!!!11!!!" feat that some are making it out to be.
It doesn't have to be explicitly stated for us to know it is absolutely true.
a.) Killing is strictly forbidden in the ToP -- violation of this rule makes your universe subject to instant erasure.
b.) Jiren can sense ki, thus obviously knows where Roshi's power stands in comparison to his own.
IOW, Jiren would've only been attacking Roshi with blows that he was sure wouldn't kill him... Which means that he was holding back immensely(to say the least.)
Originally posted by Galan007All I'm saying is that even if the added context made "Z0MG!!11!!! Roshi can now beat anyone this side of teh Jirenz!!!111!!!!11!!!", premature, holding back doesn't make sense of Jiren taking the time to dodge Roshi's attacks, much less spend the effort to engage in a brief scuffle. It's a laughably absurd outlier alright (or maybe standard now since both anime and manga amped Roshi considerably and Toriyama apparently approves Toyotaro's work directly) and hardly a necessary means of having Roshi convey to Goku how to access U.I. The only point having Roshi engage Jiren serves is to throw the dude a bone before disposing of him for the remainder of the arc. And quite a big bone at that!
Not entirely sure what you're saying here, but obviously Jiren was holding back immensely against Roshi as to not inadvertently kill him. Roshi was able to dodge a few of Jiren's vastly suppressed physical attacks by randomly approximating a faux version of UI. Once Jiren saw through this gimmick, however, he swatted Roshi away casually.Not saying it still isn't a laughably absurd outlier showing for Roshi, but it's hardly the "Z0MG!!11!!! Roshi can now beat anyone this side of teh Jirenz!!!111!!!!11!!!" feat that some are making it out to be.
In the manga chapter, when Goku goes Omen, Beerus states that he “can’t believe Goku beat him to acquiring Ultra Instinct.” However, Beerus thought it was the real deal, but Whis ultimately notes that it’s just an omen of Ultra Instinct. So once Goku unlocks the true Ultra Instinct, which we sometimes call MUI, it’s confirmed in the manga that Goku will be above Beerus.
Okay, now it's sunk in for me and am fine that it happened.
