Originally posted by Galan007
😂I remember people arguing that hard when ep.129-130 first dropped. Many of them tried to use the silver hair alone as irrefutable proof that Goku = Whis, lol.
...What a ride.
He used it as a valid argument when asked who is more powerful Blue Gogeta or UI Goku.
Originally posted by Galan007I was including fusion in my post.
^ Yeah... And most casual DB fans would also argue that n00b-SSG Goku is 70% of Beerus. Just saying.Either way, I don't think anyone would contest that MUI is Goku's most powerful form -- that much is overtly clear. Where MUI Goku ranks when compared to some of the other 'great powers' in DB, however, is something that will likely never be agreed on by the consensus, unless Toriyama himself actually comes out and says something official. /shrug
Power levels have and will always be bullshit. Every once and a while Toriyama will introduce a scaling mechanism (goku 70 percent of beerus etc) but its usually thrown out the door because his writing is usually arc specific. The rules change in the next arc and so does the scale because he has to make room for the next power up level. Broly and Frieza are easy references to this. Both characters as far as we know dont have god ki yet both gave the heroes a run for their money despite the implication that god ki was a tier to everyone else (in battle of gods).
Nothing says they surpassed Beerus specifically. I'm sure they were beyond some of the lower-level GoDs, but as we know: the GoDs are not all created equal, and Beerus is perched at the top of the GoD totem pole.
But again, short of an explicit comment from Toriyama, there will never be a consensus about this... It has already been discussed ad nauseam here, and I really don't see the point of rehashing it AGAIN. /shrug
Originally posted by HueyFreemanPretty much.
Power levels have and will always be bullshit. Every once and a while Toriyama will introduce a scaling mechanism (goku 70 percent of beerus etc) but its usually thrown out the door because his writing is usually arc specific. The rules change in the next arc and so does the scale because he has to make room for the next power up level. Broly and Frieza are easy references to this. Both characters as far as we know dont have god ki yet both gave the heroes a run for their money despite the implication that god ki was a tier to everyone else (in battle of gods).
Just look at how astronomically Beerus' power has increased between BoG and now... with literally no explanation given other than "he's just that powaful!"
srug
Originally posted by Galan007Yup. Remember the whole point of god ki was that physically they were reaching their peak (hence why they dont even use ss2 and ss3 anymore because of the physical limitation). It didnt matter how much more powerful they got physically the implication was progressive physical growth would pale compared to god ki which is why they had to train with whis. And in the very next damn arc Frieza pops up not only reaching a new level but actually more powerful than either of them on a pure physical level. So god ki was a bullshit power up that can easily be surpassed by a physical specimen. And to compensate they had to up Beerus to a ridiculous degree. Lol and dont even try to explain the tournament of power.
Pretty much.Just look at how astronomically Beerus' power has increased between BoG and now... with literally no explanation given other than "he's just that powaful!"
srug
Originally posted by BestDebaterEverjeeze. you said it like there was some kind of formal announcement but this is just your own thoughts.😆
It's kind of simple. Full power Moro from back in the day was relative to Daikaioh and whoever else he fought. We know Beerus is stronger than all of them, so he's stronger than full power Moro. Probably so much so he didn't feel the need to get involved in that little scrap.We also know that there are pre-LB versions of Jiren who are already GoD tier, and we know that when Goku first goes MUI he has surpassed all of them. That includes Beerus.
MUI being the most powerful state seems pretty obvious. I bet if you asked a casual fan to eyeball what they think is the most powerful character 90% would say Ultra Instinct.
right now i think SSB gogeta and FP broly are definitely above UI goku and Jiren.