How did you feel about H.O.T. losing all his hype?

Originally posted by WildBantha88
Revan is nothing special.

I mean, only if you're comparing him to DE Sidious level fighters. Peak Revan is knocking on that upper-upper tier of Jedi/Sith imo...he's only a step or two behind them. Only reason he seems underpowered here is because people always pit him against Sidious/Yoda/Caedus/Plaugeis.

He's kind of like Dooku. Just because you're not the best ever doesn't mean you're not pretty damn amazing.

As for Exile, on paper beating a Sith Triumverate and ending the threat that nearly annihilated the Jedi is better than taking down Malak with the Jedi and Republic backing you up. But what's canon is canon. Were it up to me I'd have Exile and Revan up at the top (a half tier below the Sids/Vitiates/Yodas of the galaxy), with HoT a tier below them since no MMO character is going to be able to have similar feats to single player heroes.

Originally posted by Hero of Python
I mean, only if you're comparing him to DE Sidious level fighters. Peak Revan is knocking on that upper-upper tier of Jedi/Sith imo...he's only a step or two behind them. Only reason he seems underpowered here is because people always pit him against Sidious/Yoda/Caedus/Plaugeis.

He's kind of like Dooku. Just because you're not the best ever doesn't mean you're not pretty damn amazing.

As for Exile, on paper beating a Sith Triumverate and ending the threat that nearly annihilated the Jedi is better than taking down Malak with the Jedi and Republic backing you up. But what's canon is canon. Were it up to me I'd have Exile and Revan up at the top (a half tier below the Sids/Vitiates/Yodas of the galaxy), with HoT a tier below them since no MMO character is going to be able to have similar feats to single player heroes.

Originally posted by WildBantha88
Oh I completely agree with Revan being Dooku level, but not an ultra-mega-jesus-starwars-god-omega that his fan boys are convincing people that he is

It's not just fans, it's logic. Revan is in the second highest tier possible.

All based on a nexus feat 👆

We all know how people love nexus feats. I guess the only way to have a nexus feat taken seriously is by fanboyism

He didn't deserve his hype anyway.

Originally posted by ares834
HoT was never great to start with. He beat a badly weakened Voice, and some extrapolated that to him defeating a full powered Vitiate when that was never the case.

And Bengel Morr (with just a training sabre.)

And Power Guards (stated to be strong enough to fight Jedi/Sith on equal footing.)

And Sadic (who was Angral's top apprentice even before undergoing the Power Guard process.)

And Darth Angral (who was Dark Council level, and this was still quite early in the HoT's career)

And Scourge (a 300+ year old master duellist who had killed over 1000 Jedi and Sith that the Emperor considered a threat. Meaning he didn't just kill a bunch of wussies)

And the Gormak Guardian (an avatar of Sel-Makor)

And Tol Braga (who beat a Dark Counciler)

And the Imperial Guard (whom even the Dark Council were scared of)

And a ton of others.

Oh and this bit here:

Originally posted by ares834
He beat a badly weakened Voice,

Let me remind you that Scourge himself pointed out that the Emperor would recover swiftly and that he had extra time to recover because the HoT chose to go and save Kira (which does effect gameplay BTW). The EV wasn't at full power sure, but he was by no means helpless either.

Plus the HoT wasn't fresh as a daisy either, having had to fight through a ton of strong defences to get to him.

Never great? The HoT was incredible.

Someone seems butt hurt that the HoT isn't even fit to lift Revan's jock strap.

Originally posted by ares834
Someone seems butt hurt that the HoT isn't even fit to lift Revan's jock strap.

If you are referring to me then no, not really.

I just think it's pretty daft to claim that the HoT was "never great" given his/her track record.

Originally posted by Hero of Python
Just because you're not the best ever doesn't mean you're not pretty damn amazing.

Exactly.

@chilled monkey

Well said. 👆

I don't get the Hero of Tython - loosing his hype - claims. His story is in progress and he is called upon to confront the greatest challenges of the galaxy and he delivers.

HoT is easily among the TOP-TIER Jedi, IMO.

Comparison with Emperor Vitiate is silly, he is the most powerful Force-user ever per TOR sources. Just look at developments in Ziost; Vitiate attacked and dominated the entire planet. Aside from Darth Nihilus, no Force-user have a matching feat.

Originally posted by Hero of Python
I mean, only if you're comparing him to DE Sidious level fighters. Peak Revan is knocking on that upper-upper tier of Jedi/Sith imo...he's only a step or two behind them. Only reason he seems underpowered here is because people always pit him against Sidious/Yoda/Caedus/Plaugeis.

He's kind of like Dooku. Just because you're not the best ever doesn't mean you're not pretty damn amazing.

As for Exile, on paper beating a Sith Triumverate and ending the threat that nearly annihilated the Jedi is better than taking down Malak with the Jedi and Republic backing you up. But what's canon is canon. Were it up to me I'd have Exile and Revan up at the top (a half tier below the Sids/Vitiates/Yodas of the galaxy), with HoT a tier below them since no MMO character is going to be able to have similar feats to single player heroes.

TIER 1: Darth Sidious
TIER 2: Master Yoda; Darth Caedus; Darth Plagueis; Hero of Tython; Master Revan; and False Emperor Malgus

Originally posted by WildBantha88
Oh I completely agree with Revan being Dooku level, but not an ultra-mega-jesus-starwars-god-omega that his fan boys are convincing people that he is

^
LOL@ Yoda and HoT being in the same tier.

Tier 1: Sidious, Yoda, Plagueis, Vitiate
Tier 2: Revan, Malgus, Dooku, Mace, Vader,
Tier 3: Maul, Kenobi, HoT (barely, the weakest one)

Pffft, the Hero is much stronger than Obi-Wan.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
@chilled monkey

Well said. 👆

I don't get the Hero of Tython - loosing his hype - claims. His story is in progress and he is called upon to confront the greatest challenges of the galaxy and he delivers.

HoT is easily among the TOP-TIER Jedi, IMO.

👆

Yes, the Hero didn't lose any hype. She's still THE top tier Jedi of Swtor. Other than Revan she's clearly the best Jedi of the age. The best of her time and the previous. The Barsen'thor can be argued to rival her as well, but this doesn't diminish her.

The Knight's pretty sorely underrated. He's still the Order's most skilled member and one of its most powerful (only the Consular would be stronger in the Force) and quite frankly rivals or exceeds the Warrior in everything minus durability.

The Consular is a greater Force user and more adept with the Force, but the Knight is more powerful imo. No other Jedi was powerful enough to do what she did on Dromund Kaas. Even Vitiate acknowledges her immense power.

The Knight's meant to have immense Force power/potential by anybody's admission, but in terms of straight showings, he unfortunately doesn't match that hype in the slightest. The Consular actually has showings to support his hype, but then again, the Consular's hype is easily the most limited out of the Force-wielding protagonists.

Although the DS option after you beat Vitiate could be seen as a nice power feat since Vitiate in that mortally weakened state could still collapse the Dark Temple (or part of it), and the Knight would've been weakened by the dark side nexus (although if you pick the DS option, you could get amped?).

Because the Knight isn't a dedicated Force user like the Consular is. She uses the Force for defense, tactically and for amplification. The Hero is repeatedly stated to be the most powerful and strongest Jedi alive for the majority of the story and is constantly improving noticeably.

Well even if you're a DS Jedi you're really just an evil Jedi. You still use the lightside and glow yellow and shit. It's kind of like CW Anakin, he does DS stuff but he's still a Jedi and doesn't use the darkside outside of outbursts. Also the Knight would be extremely tired by that point after all that fighting.

Sure, but the Warrior's hardly a dedicated Force user himself, and yet the Warrior's still respectably powerful in terms of showings. For all the Knight's hype, he has few power showings.

And yeah, my general analogy is Anakin, who is still a Jedi but performs dark-sided acts on occasion.

The Warrior is also a Sith who doesn't mind smashing opponents with the Force. The Knight is naturally more defensive. But you just gave an example that imo eclipses the Consular and the Warrior in terms of power by ragdolling Vitiate. Not even to mention blocking his attacks before that point inside the Dark Temple after tiring herself.

The Consular by the developer's own statement is a defensive being, and would embody that idea moreso than the Knight. Considering that the Knight is stated to be a threat to others even without his blade thanks to his mastery of the Force, it's highly likely that he would be more offensive in nature than the Consular.

Not sure if many people accept that example, though. It's common to see people claiming that Vitiate offered no resistance and that the Knight was amped by the Dark Temple if he chooses that option.

Well that's dumb, the Consular's whole thing is beating the shit out of people with TK, "distorting reality and moving massive waves of energy that tear apart a Sage’s enemies". She mainly fights using the Force, you can't beat someone defensively with the Force. The whole point of a Consular is fighting primarily with the Force as opposed to the standard Jedi Knight who uses it in more passive ways and this is shown in her feats of using massive Force blasts.

Well like I said, being able to block a much stronger Vitiate's TK and lightning during the fight as opposed to afterwards when he's exhausted and highly weakened still suggests greater power. She was also stated to be too powerful for him to telepathically attack, with Scourge stating that no-one else was that powerful.