Wow people over there try really hard to claim a seat on the Vader > Kun bandwagon don't they. Breaking through the Force barriers of Galen is absolutely in no way a comparable feat, not only is it not a feat exclusive to Vader in the Force Unleashed it is also not a feat that compares to spreading power across multiple powerful individuals prepared for an attack.
Firstly, nothing that you quoted implies that he took them down individually, he shuts down Streen and then all the rest at once. Infact he is maintaining the grip and is choking them so hard they physically 'darkened'.
Streen is possesed but nothing implies Kun did anything but use an illusion to trick him into attacking Luke, Leia, and Cilghal. Infact Kun tricks him into believing he is attacking Kun himself. So no he was not amped by Kun, as if he hasn't replicated similar alter feats besides that.
Yes reflected indeed, which is half my argument, prime Kun would have crushed them easily by logic of scaling.
Failing to see how a focused attack on a single Force user that has notoriously poor Force defense displays in the first place is comparable to a spread out attack over a dozen Force users.
Originally posted by AncientPower
Wow people over there try really hard to claim a seat on the Vader > Kun bandwagon don't they. Breaking through the Force barriers of Galen is absolutely in no way a comparable feat, not only is it not a feat exclusive to Vader in the Force Unleashed it is also not a feat that compares to spreading power across multiple powerful individuals prepared for an attack.Firstly, nothing that you quoted implies that he took them down individually, he shuts down Streen and then all the rest at once. Infact he is maintaining the grip and is choking them so hard they physically 'darkened'.
Streen is possesed but nothing implies Kun did anything but use an illusion to trick him into attacking Luke, Leia, and Cilghal. Infact Kun tricks him into believing he is attacking Kun himself. So no he was not amped by Kun, as if he hasn't replicated similar alter feats besides that.
Yes reflected indeed, which is half my argument, prime Kun would have crushed them easily by logic of scaling.
Failing to see how a focused attack on a single Force user that has notoriously poor Force defense displays in the first place is comparable to a spread out attack over a dozen Force users.
Vader never broke through the force defenses of a prime Galen and he only managed to disarm Starkiller of his lightsaber with TK and affect a physical object ( the platform ) which affected Starkiller. If he HAD broken through Galen or Starkiller's force barrier it would be debatably around Kun's level but he hasn't so the point is moot.
That's false. I'd argue Galen/Starkiller are more powerful then most groups.
Don't really care enough about the rest. I hold no hate for Kun. Just don't want Galen/Starkiller to be lowballed.
Ptetty sure there is a TFUII gif of Vader choke gripping Starkiller on Kamino before Starkiller breaks free.
Starkiller being less, as or more powerful is absolutely not the point, infact a single focused attack isn't comparable to a spread out stranglehold on numerous powerful Jedi at all.
I mean a better comparison of a battle would be Vader's performance at the conclave on Kessel, Vader gets drawn into a trap and is far from his prime. He gets very nearly killed in a long fight against a lesser amount of Jedi.
Originally posted by Nephthys
He (and Kyp, or through Kyp or whatever) ripped Luke's spirit out of his body with Luke trying every defense he knew and nothing doing jack shit. IIRC.
There's a good possibility that was just due to the fact that Luke had no means of dealing with sorcery in general at the time though.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Galen isn't more powerful than Kirana Ti, Dorsk 81, Kam Solusar, Tionne Solusar, Cilghal, Brakiss, Streen, Jacen, and Jaina all together.Aren't they the group that tossed a fleet of Star Destroyers out of a system?
No, it was Dorsk 81 with a few Jedi using a temple's focal point.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Galen isn't more powerful than Kirana Ti, Dorsk 81, Kam Solusar, Tionne Solusar, Cilghal, Brakiss, Streen, Jacen, and Jaina all together.Aren't they the group that tossed a fleet of Star Destroyers out of a system?
No. It was the entire Jedi Order empowering a single Jedi that sent a fleet out of the system.
I don't know how powerful all those characters would be at that point. Mind telling me their feats by that point?
Originally posted by AncientPower
Ptetty sure there is a TFUII gif of Vader choke gripping Starkiller on Kamino before Starkiller breaks free.Starkiller being less, as or more powerful is absolutely not the point, infact a single focused attack isn't comparable to a spread out stranglehold on numerous powerful Jedi at all.
I mean a better comparison of a battle would be Vader's performance at the conclave on Kessel, Vader gets drawn into a trap and is far from his prime. He gets very nearly killed in a long fight against a lesser amount of Jedi.
That's from a cutscene that contradicts other versions of the game with different cutscenes.
Fair point. I just want to make sure people know Vader never actually affected Galen/Starkiller in their shown primes with TK. Only physical objects around them that may have unbalanced them. Though in Galen's case Vader didn't even manage to accomplish this.
Originally posted by AncientPower
It isn't sorcery though, it is a really bizarre version of Force lightning as Kyp makes clear at the end of Champions of the Force.
No, Kyp was bringing him down with lightning while Exar was subduing him with illusory tendrils.
@Neph: Yoda was training him to fight Vader, not to face ancient magics.
Originally posted by AncientPowerHuh? I'm holding the reins bish. 🙂
Wow people over there try really hard to claim a seat on the Vader > Kun bandwagon don't they.
Breaking through the Force barriers of Galen is absolutely in no way a comparable featOrly?
not only is it not a feat exclusive to Vader in the Force UnleashedWho else accomplished it? Palpatine I guess. 👆
it is also not a feat that compares to spreading power across multiple powerful individuals prepared for an attack.How? Fact remains those multiple individuals remain individually weak. That's akin to claiming it's harder to snap a bunch of twigs than a single thick branch.
And he was in the middle of combat so I'd say he was prepared
Firstly, nothing that you quoted implies that he took them down individually, he shuts down Streen and then all the rest at once.The fact some were "resisting" proves otherwise, if you are shut down/overpowered, you are not resisting. Let’s also not forget the fact his aura was overshadowing their connection to the Force.
Infact he is maintaining the grip and is choking them so hard they physically 'darkened'.Only after he is said to focus on breaking those resisting.
Streen is possesed but nothing implies Kun did anything but use an illusion to trick him into attacking Luke, Leia, and Cilghal. Infact Kun tricks him into believing he is attacking Kun himself. So no he was not amped by Kun, as if he hasn't replicated similar alter feats besides that.Not true according to a source you yourself provided:
Exar Kun himself possessed a great many other dark powers that he was unable to harness without the energy he needed to fuel his disembodied will. Some of these powers he was able to channel through Kyp, Gantoris, and Streen to achieve his ends.
Not that Streen's innate talent with AE suggests comparable defensive capabilities.
Yes reflected indeed, which is half my argument, prime Kun would have crushed them easily by logic of scaling.OK, let's assume for a moment prime Kun can overpower these nine Jedi with ease.Failing to see how a focused attack on a single Force user that has notoriously poor Force defense displays in the first place is comparable to a spread out attack over a dozen Force users.
I've already addressed why Galen Marek as an individual should be more powerful than them collectively, but his defensive capabilities can be brought into question so let's use power scaling instead. For example, Darth Traya, with total ease dominated Visas Marr, Brianna, and Mira at once:
Before growing in strength under the Exile, Visas Marr has already been acknowledged as having power second only to Nihilus among the Sith. Brianna after her training is blitzing 5 Handmaidens then going on to contend with Atris in combat. Mira lacks any feats by which to assess her ability, but I assume she at least compares to her peers, or rather could be substituted with Atton - as Kreia effortlessly dominates him as well - who demonstrated the ability to defeat Darth Sion on an extremely potent dark side nexus, that rendered the latter seemingly immortal.
Point being that the Exile's students are very powerful, and I'm inclined to say they are more than a cut above the largely featless Jedi that Kun dominated, two of whom are three year olds. So dominating four or five empowered by meld with the same level of ease isn't really outside her pay grade.
Vader is significantly more powerful than Traya, so why should we assume dominating all seven, plus two kids who really aren't capable of defending themselves at all, beyond him? I'd argue that it's well within his capabilities.
On the other hand, Vader has replicated the kind of raw destructive power Exar Kun demonstrated while heavily amplified on Yavin 4, without external aid, so I'd say there is a stronger case for Vader's superiority over Exar Kun to be made there.