(Rematch) The Hulk (MCU) VS Thor (MCU)

SPOILERS:

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
That's right GM stopped Thor.

And you are right that punch from Thor did hurt the Hulk. But none of the above means that Hulk was losing.

It definitely dazed Hulk, and that was one shot. Not even sure if that was Thor's full power given he seemed to have given Hela a bigger blast "I hit her with the biggest lightning blast in the history of Lightning blasts"

So could Hulk have taken repeated Lightning shots? Unlikely. Could Thor have taken repeated punches from Hulk to the face? Well he already did.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Hulk was getting angrier and angrier and angrier. Hulk is never ending rage which resumes in never ending power.

That's neither shown or confirmed in the movies. Especially the "never ending" part.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Look am not a fan of either Hulk nor Thor. Am just telling you what i know, and what i've read in the news and comics.

If Ragnarok Thor is powerful to you, let me tell you Thor will get MUCH MORE POWERFUL. In Ragnarok we only got to see a peak of Thor's powers.

Now, if you think that we so Hulk's true power let me tell you that IS NOT THE CASE NEITHER.

According to some news, Ragnarok was a testing ground for Planet Hulk. Which leads to World War Hulk.

Now if you don't know who WWH is, just let me tell you he beats the CRAP out of Thor.

I support Hulk because of his never-ending rage ability. Simple never-ending power. Thor would lose eventually.

You're mixing the comics too much with the movies. The comic versus fight is a completely different argument. But comic Thor can not only BFR Hulk but GOD BLAST kills all.

And btw WWH is not the most powerful incarnation of Hulk. Thor can even take World Breaker Hulk (if he goes all out). But he obviously wouldn't fair well in H2H against that incarnation.

Back to the movie versions, we can only go with the power levels shown. And best Hulk could do was stalemate. But it's pretty clear GM was worried as hell for him.

Originally posted by Arachnid1
Thor with access to his full powerset will always take a comfortable win.

Originally posted by The Sorrow
Maybe, but at this point it's speculation. It wasn't just Thors fist that was charged up it was his whole body,

I agree with you that would be speculation, which is why I've not even bothered to bring the "No Mjolnir" point up after seeing the movie.

That said, where Mjolnir clearly would have helped is in the Pre-Lightning brawl. Not only would all of Thor's hits have that extra level of impact, but he may even get an opportunity mid-fight to ground Hulk like he did Surtur's dragon.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
I agree with you that would be speculation, which is why I've not even bothered to bring the "No Mjolnir" point up after seeing the movie.

That said, where Mjolnir clearly would have helped is in the Pre-Lightning brawl. Not only would all of Thor's hits have that extra level of impact, but he may even get an opportunity mid-fight to ground Hulk like he did Surtur's dragon.

Spoiler:
Did you miss the big phuck off replacement he had? That was clearly intended to more or less show us a regular Thor vs Hulk fight which Hulk was winning, then Odin reared his head and all of a sudden Thor turns SSJ 2 Goku.

SPOILERS:

Originally posted by The Sorrow
Yeah exactly. Rage clearly hadn't seen the movie based on his posts, this is for sure the most impressive Thor we've seen so far.

Not sure about that. But it was the first time he used his more exotic powers on Hulk.

Originally posted by The Sorrow

Spoiler:
Did you miss the big phuck off replacement he had? That was clearly intended to more or less show us a regular Thor vs Hulk fight which Hulk was winning, then Odin reared his head and all of a sudden Thor turns SSJ 2 Goku.

I dunno about that... Don't see some random big weapon being an equal replacement for Mjolnir.

Nor will it fly and follow his mental commands, or be unmovable for Hulk.

Originally posted by The Sorrow
Yeah exactly. Rage clearly hadn't seen the movie based on his posts, this is for sure the most impressive Thor we've seen so far.

Spoiler:
Did you miss the big phuck off replacement he had? That was clearly intended to more or less show us a regular Thor vs Hulk fight which Hulk was winning, then Odin reared his head and all of a sudden Thor turns SSJ 2 Goku.

Actually I have, and the movie changes nothing except reinforcing the fact that yes, Hulk would beat a weaponless Thor, in a hand to hand brawl when Thor's holding back but the moment Thor stops fighting Hulk on his terms and uses his full power, he'd win. And tbh, I don't know if Hulk can knock out Thor without outside circumstances, his durability is ridiculous (Hulk was given an ideal scenario to have a chance to knock out Thor and the Odinson wasn't even scratched). Throw that in with his far superior hand to hand skills, and Thor vs. Hulk in hand to hand is almost a stalemate imo. The strength edge being cancelled out by the skill edge.

Spoiler:
The only time Hulk had an advantage or was "winning" was during the ground and pound scene but that's because Hulk is relentless and murderous unlike Thor. After Thor hit Hulk with his own hammer, he was dazed af and still on the ground after Thor strolled over from across the arena. Reverse the mindset and imagine Thor immediately following up with a brutal beat down....

Thor dominated 90% of the fight until the beat down. Even when he was dancing around the Hulk and said f*ck it, he told Hulk to stop because their friends and said he didn't want to hurt him.

How was Thor more impressive in this movie than before? The only difference is that he no longer needs Mjolnir to channel his own inner power. If Thor had his hammer in that arena fight, Hulk would've been screeeeeewed.

Spoiler:

Why? Because Thor did have the advantage in hand to hand against the Hulk with a hammer. Hulk was really feeling the hits but Mjolnir is smaller, far harder to defend against, and hits way harder, at least when charged. It's also impossible to separate from Thor.

If Thor had Mjolnir, the only time Hulk had an advantage (Palming followed by ground and pound) wouldn't even had happened because he'd have lost use of his hand trying to catch Mjolnir. And Thor would be able to fly....spin up tornadoes, and constantly bombard Hulk from afar with throws.

To recap, Thor and Hulk hand to hand was competitive but the moment Thor got irritated and utilized his superior skills, he was dominating the fight, especially when he had Hulk's weapon. Hulk being the stronger opponent, was able to get Thor down and got the advantage. Said advantage wouldn't have been possible to get if Thor had Mjolnir....which is why your opinion, that Thor wouldn't fair better with Mjolnir or something is utter nonsense.

It's MJOLNIR. Indestructible, can fly autonomously, impossible to lift, and hits harder than anything Hulk has ever been hit with. Thor could drop it on Hulk's foot and Banner would be screwed right there in a fight.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
SPOILERS:

It definitely dazed Hulk, and that was one shot. Not even sure if that was Thor's full power given he seemed to have given Hela a bigger blast "I hit her with the biggest lightning blast in the history of Lightning blasts"

So could Hulk have taken repeated Lightning shots? Unlikely. Could Thor have taken repeated punches from Hulk to the face? Well he already did.

It dazed him. But it's clearly seen that Hulk gets even angrier after that punch. And yes Hela got an enormous blast. But we don't know if the Hulk wouldn't be able to take it. We don't know if Hela is more durable than the Hulk.

Hulk is still one of if not the most durable characters in the MCU. I don't see why Hela would be more durable.

Well that is an erroneous rhetoric let me tell you why:

1. Thor doesn't have never ending power. Or atleast not in Ragnarok. I doubt Thor could cast never ending charged punches. Most likely he would de-power after a couple of hits.

2. Hulk on the other hand doesn't ever ran out of Stamina.

So it isn't possible for Thor to give never-ending power at this point. Also as i mentioned before Hulk's never ending rage means he will just get angrier and angrier after every punch he gets.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
That's neither shown or confirmed in the movies. Especially the "never ending" part.

Why not? It's the Hulk. That's a known trait from him.

Hulk's never ending-anger is well known and established. The movies haven't rebuked that information.

Hulk's anger is what exactly makes him the Hulk so i doubt they would do so.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
You're mixing the comics too much with the movies. The comic versus fight is a completely different argument. But comic Thor can not only BFR Hulk but GOD BLAST kills all.

And btw WWH is not the most powerful incarnation of Hulk. Thor can even take World Breaker Hulk (if he goes all out). But he obviously wouldn't fair well in H2H against that incarnation.

Back to the movie versions, we can only go with the power levels shown. And best Hulk could do was stalemate. But it's pretty clear GM was worried as hell for him.

The MCU movies are pulled out of the comics.

So who's the most powerful incarnation then?

As I said before, GM protected Hulk, but doesn't mean Hulk needed it. Hulk was getting angrier, that was clear. It would have been interesting to see how it would have enroled.

It's obvious that the movie couldn't let the battle be prolongued else the destruction would have been massive...that stadium would have been destroyed and God knows if the battle would have ended there..

More no limit fallacies and comics from the fanboy. it's like he doesn't know that they aren't valid arguments in the MvF.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander

1. Thor doesn't have never ending power. Or atleast not in Ragnarok. I doubt Thor could cast never ending charged punches. Most likely he would de-power after a couple of hits.

2. Hulk on the other hand doesn't ever ran out of Stamina.

So it isn't possible for Thor to give never-ending power at this point. Also as i mentioned before Hulk's never ending rage means he will just get angrier and angrier after every punch he gets.

If you watched The Incredible Hulk and even the Avengers, you know that Hulk can get tired and groggy.

It's also never proven in the MCU that Hulk gets stronger as he gets angrier. And even if that's true, Hulk doesn't have "unlimited anger" as part of his powerset.

You're right about Thor, he doesn't have endless stamina or power, but then again, neither does Hulk. The main difference is that we've seen Hulk completely go berserk twice already. Once in Avengers and AoU. We've never seen Thor go berserk yet. And if a calm, holding back Thor in Avengers was able to give an out-of-control Hulk a fight, could you imagine what an out-of-control Thor would be like?

Originally posted by FrothByte
If you watched The Incredible Hulk and even the Avengers, you know that Hulk can get tired and groggy.

It's also never proven in the MCU that Hulk gets stronger as he gets angrier. And even if that's true, Hulk doesn't have "unlimited anger" as part of his powerset.

You're right about Thor, he doesn't have endless stamina or power, but then again, neither does Hulk. The main difference is that we've seen Hulk completely go berserk twice already. Once in Avengers and AoU. We've never seen Thor go berserk yet. And if a calm, holding back Thor in Avengers was able to give an out-of-control Hulk a fight, could you imagine what an out-of-control Thor would be like?

Hulk's limitless anger is a known feat. Many other characters including Steven Strange have even categorized Hulk's anger as limitless.

MCU has never contradicted such information. Nor does it have reason too. Specially with speculations of Planet Hulk being made...Hulk's character is based on anger. Why would Marvel ever retcon such thing?

Again Hulk's stamina is proportional to his anger, such as his strength. This is a known thing.

In Avangers there are instances in where the Hulk gets distracted or his feelings get disoriented from Anger. In such instances the Hulk loses strength and stamina.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jo6f7RuQSBQ

Take the Hulkbuster vs Hulk scene for instance.

There is no way the Hulkbuster could ever K.O an angry Hulk!! Hulk was inmune to all attacks from Tony! The moment Hulk was distracted (After the building was destroyed) Tony manage to put him down.

Check minute 3:55 to minute 4:18: The Hulk was clearly not angry. He was confused and even sad for all the destruction being made! That instance was when Hulkbuster finally manage to put him down.

Never compare the strength of a normal Hulk with an Angry Hulk. Simply not the same.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Hulk's limitless anger is a known feat. Many other characters including Steven Strange have even categorized Hulk's anger as limitless.

MCU has never contradicted such information. Nor does it have reason too. Specially with speculations of Planet Hulk being made...Hulk's character is based on anger. Why would Marvel ever retcon such thing?

Again Hulk's stamina is proportional to his anger, such as his strength. This is a known thing.

In Avangers there are instances in where the Hulk gets distracted or his feelings get disoriented from Anger. In such instances the Hulk loses strength and stamina.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jo6f7RuQSBQ

Take the Hulkbuster vs Hulk scene for instance.

There is no way the Hulkbuster could ever K.O an angry Hulk!! Hulk was inmune to all attacks from Tony! The moment Hulk was distracted (After the building was destroyed) Tony manage to put him down.

Check minute 3:55 to minute 4:18: The Hulk was clearly not angry. He was confused and even sad for all the destruction being made! That instance was when Hulkbuster finally manage to put him down.

Never compare the strength of a normal Hulk with an Angry Hulk. Simply not the same.

Josh, you need to understand how the mvf works. Comics mean nothing here. Nothing. You base whatever claims you might have on what you see on screen. If it's not shown or at least mentioned on screen then it never happened.

There is no mention or showcasing that Hulk has limitless anger nor does it show he gets stronger the angrier he gets.

And before you go with your "Yeah but it was never shown contradictory to the comics..." well stop right there. Don't mention comics at all. The fact that you keep bringing it up shows that you don't actually understand how things work here.

As I said before, the Hulk is an anger based character.

Anger or stress is what triggers the Hulk in the first place. This is known.

The moment the Hulk gets distracted from Anger is the moment the Hulk is the weakest. That's how the Hulk turns back to Bruce Banner in the first place.

When Hulk calms down is when Hulk transforms into Banner.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbVvA8klKMo

Natasha knows this. Natasha tries to talk to Hulk. Natasha calms the Hulk (Takes his anger away) turning him back to Banner.

Spoiler:
Even in Ragnarok we could see how Thor tried several times to mimic Natasha. Even Thor knows that the less angry Hulk is, the less dangerous he is

So, again.

Anger gives Hulk the advantage over Thor. If Thor manages to calm down the Hulk or the Hulk gets distracted...Then Thor might have a chance.

Otherwise...Hulk wins always.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Josh, you need to understand how the mvf works. Comics mean nothing here. Nothing. You base whatever claims you might have on what you see on screen. If it's not shown or at least mentioned on screen then it never happened.

There is no mention or showcasing that Hulk has limitless anger nor does it show he gets stronger the angrier he gets.

And before you go with your "Yeah but it was never shown contradictory to the comics..." well stop right there. Don't mention comics at all. The fact that you keep bringing it up shows that you don't actually understand how things work here.

Well i disagree. I don't see how the rules of this forums limit logic. MCU has never limited Hulk's anger neither. So, per forum rules, neither your argument nor mines are valid.

Hey, I just proved that. Did you watch the video. It's clear Hulk wasn't angry when Tony K.O him. That is shown. So logic wise, No angry Hulk<<Angry Hulk.

No MVF rule says you can't use logic.

Well, these are movies which are based on comics so... I disagree. I believe you can't bring specifically things from comics. But General Information remains general. Why would the MCU contradict General information from their comics? Makes no sense.

@Massive fanboy

This is the Movie vs Froum. Only what the movies show count, comics feats and information aren't valid.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Well i disagree. I don't see how the rules of this forums limit logic. MCU has never limited Hulk's anger neither. So, per forum rules, neither your argument nor mines are valid.

Hey, I just proved that. Did you watch the video. It's clear Hulk wasn't angry when Tony K.O him. That is shown. So logic wise, No angry Hulk<<Angry Hulk.

No MVF rule says you can't use logic.

Well, these are movies which are based on comics so... I disagree. I believe you can't bring specifically things from comics. But General Information remains general. Why would the MCU contradict General information from their comics? Makes no sense.

Logic dictates that no person has limitless anger. You go to berserk where everything's a red haze and you're lashing out at friends and foe alike and that's pretty much the top. If you want to make a claim that Hulk has a certain "limitless anger" superpower then it's up to you to prove it using MOVIE feats.

And again, you mentioned comics. You really don't understand do you? Just don't mention comics and you should be good.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Well i disagree. I don't see how the rules of this forums limit logic. MCU has never limited Hulk's anger neither. So, per forum rules, neither your argument nor mines are valid.

Hey, I just proved that. Did you watch the video. It's clear Hulk wasn't angry when Tony K.O him. That is shown. So logic wise, No angry Hulk<<Angry Hulk.

No MVF rule says you can't use logic.

Well, these are movies which are based on comics so... I disagree. I believe you can't bring specifically things from comics. But General Information remains general. Why would the MCU contradict General information from their comics? Makes no sense.

You're not site's owner, forum mod or thread starter. which means you can't set or change any rules or stipulations.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Logic dictates that no person has limitless anger. You go to berserk where everything's a red haze and you're lashing out at friends and foe alike and that's pretty much the top. If you want to make a claim that Hulk has a certain "limitless anger" superpower then it's up to you to prove it using MOVIE feats.

And again, you mentioned comics. You really don't understand do you? Just don't mention comics and you should be good.

And what happens to things that can't be proven or disproven!? This is such a scenario. Such would be Spider Man's Homecoming's Spider sense. The movie never picture it, nor contradict it. So it is limbo just as Hulk's limitless anger.

BUT these movies are based on comics. So in such a scenario in where the movie fails to inform, there is nothing wrong in using Comic general information. I completely disagree with MVF rules in such aspect.

Now, i would completely agree on things like:

Hulk beat up Juggernaut in a comic so he beats up Thor.

or

Thor faced the Beyonders in Secret Wars so Hulk is a peace of cake.

I am bringing comic instances and feats, which should COMPLETELY BE BANNED.

But these are movies that based their characters on Comics, so using comic general information in instances where MOVIES FAIL to inform the users shouldn't be illegal. Such a thing just limits discussions.

http://www.denofgeek.com/us/books-comics/thor/240901/thor-ragnarok-and-its-importance-to-the-marvel-universe

See, even Thor Ragnarok was inspired on several comics.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
And what happens to things that can't be proven or disproven!? This is such a scenario. Such would be Spider Man's Homecoming's Spider sense. The movie never picture it, nor contradict it. So it is limbo just as Hulk's limitless anger.

MCU Spider-Man has to PROVE he has a Spider-Sense regardless of the comics and previous movies. We don't just assume he has one when it's not been shown (although it sort of was shown in Civil War, but clearly no where near as effective yet as comic or previous movie versions).

If you're just gonna Assume Hulk has unlimited anger and power, then I'll just assume Thor has his godblast and can kill Hulk with it anytime he wants. See how that works.

Won't be able to comment until Thursday.

Looking heated already LMAO.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
MCU Spider-Man has to PROVE he has a Spider-Sense regardless of the comics and previous movies. We don't just assume he has one when it's not been shown (although it sort of was shown in Civil War, but clearly no where near as effective yet as comic or previous movie versions).

It was also showcased a bit in the leaked Infinity War footage. There is a brief shot on a bus, showing the hair on Peter's one arm raising, and his head then snapping towards the direction of the danger.