Caine Wise (Jupiter Ascending) vs. Darth Vader (ROTJ)

Originally posted by StealthRanger
Speed feats in Star Wars put him at the point where he could do it at way above human speeds, and DC feats in Star Wars put him at the point where he could force crush this fleshling handily (unless there's a feat elsewhere that puts Caine on the level where he could resist or tank Vader's telekinesis, if so, please share)

Because someone who pedantically nitpicks percieved low ends and takes the best feats for his own side is totally objective by comparison

But no seriously, he can crush materials that can tank heavy blaster cannons that can vaporise durasteel, are you seriously doubting he could force crush a god damn human?

Lies. I look at all the feats and do not make stuff up like you're doing.

He has never done so. You can't make the claim without one single feat if him doing so.

Force lightning also killed him. 😂

Originally posted by quanchi112
Caine is far quicker and more formidable than humans as well. Post the feat where he insta crushes flesh.

Pedanticism

And show me a speed feat from Caine plz that as you suggest he can zip around Vader shonen style or w/e

Lies. I look at all the feats and do not make stuff up like you're doing.

Ahahahaha, oh no you don't, you simply take the lowest end showings and assume they're actually evidence (protip: they're not, never have been and never will be)

He has never done so. You can't make the claim without one single feat if him doing so.

I can make the claim when his feats put him well above the point where he can crush human flash, it'd be like saying Superman can't lift a sea monkey or Vegeta couldn't bust a continent

Force lightning also killed him. 😂

>implies being killed by Sidious' force lightning is some kind of low end showing

Originally posted by StealthRanger
Pedanticism

And show me a speed feat from Caine plz that as you suggest he can zip around Vader shonen style or w/e

Ahahahaha, oh no you don't, you simply take the lowest end showings and assume they're actually evidence (protip: they're not, never have been and never will be)

I can make the claim when his feats put him well above the point where he can crush human flash, it'd be like saying Superman can't lift a sea monkey or Vegeta couldn't bust a continent

>implies being killed by Sidious' force lightning is some kind of low end showing

All showings are evidence. You want to ignore losses, context, and make up feats.

It did not kill Luke a fleshy human.

😂

Originally posted by quanchi112
End of the film where he zips around the planet to save his girl. I don't know if the video is posted online yet since it's only available digitally.

Context, distance, timeframe required

Shorter version: quantify it or GTFO

All showings are evidence. You want to ignore losses, context, and make up feats.

Low end showings do not count as valid evidence. Losing to beings above the character (like say, Qui-Gon losing to Darth Maul) is not a low end showing, that character is just that powerful, hence why powerscaling is a thing

It did not kill Luke a fleshy human.

😂

Because Luke and Jedi in general are pretty ****ing durable, and have telekinesis or their own to counter the force (and Vader never force crushed to attempted to force crush Luke), in other words you have no idea what the **** you're talking about as usual

Originally posted by StealthRanger
Context, distance, timeframe required

Shorter version: quantify it or GTFO

Low end showings do not count as valid evidence. Losing to beings above the character (like say, Qui-Gon losing to Darth Maul) is not a low end showing, that character is just that powerful, hence why powerscaling is a thing

Because Luke and Jedi in general are pretty ****ing durable, and have telekinesis or their own to counter the force (and Vader never force crushed to attempted to force crush Luke), in other words you have no idea what the **** you're talking about as usual

Yes, they do. Anyone who wants to ignore or only highlight certain aspects are fanboys.

Nah, they lose limbs and burn quite easily. Look at Vader after he burst into flames and cries. 😂

Originally posted by quanchi112
Watch it for yourself.

Oh what was that rule that stopped lying as much a possible, Burden of Proof? As in, provide evidence or shut the **** up?

Yes, they do. Anyone who wants to ignore or only highlight certain aspects are fanboys.

Or actually get a good perspective on how powerful characters are. Low end showings only get brought up by people asshurt about the power of characters

Nah, they lose limbs and burn quite easily. Look at Vader after he burst into flames and cries. 😂

So Senator Armstrong has his arm cut off by Jetstream Sam in Metal Gear Rising. Despite Armstrong's durability feats in the series, does this mean that he's now some sack of flesh because he can lose limbs, even though his arm was cut off by a guy who stomped a dude who chucked a 500+ ton mech 20 meters or so?

Freiza was cut apart by Trunks, Freiza having survived a planet blowing up on him, because Freiza was cut apart by Trunks, is he a squishy meatbag who could be killed by a bullet, even though Trunks is a ****ing Super Saiyan?

No, the things that cut them are just that ****ing powerful

Anakin was burned because he was seriously injured by Obi-Wan. Anakin and Obi survived being near the lava the whole fight, Qui-Gon survived being close to molten metal. Jedi have hefty durability to heat

Originally posted by StealthRanger
Oh what was that rule that stopped lying as much a possible, Burden of Proof? As in, provide evidence or shut the **** up?

Or actually get a good perspective on how powerful characters are. Low end showings only get brought up by people asshurt about the power of characters

So Senator Armstrong has his arm cut off by Jetstream Sam in Metal Gear Rising. Despite Armstrong's durability feats in the series, does this mean that he's now some sack of flesh because he can lose limbs, even though his arm was cut off by a guy who stomped a dude who chucked a 500+ ton mech 20 meters or so?

Freiza was cut apart by Trunks, Freiza having survived a planet blowing up on him, because Freiza was cut apart by Trunks, is he a squishy meatbag who could be killed by a bullet, even though Trunks is a ****ing Super Saiyan?

No, the things that cut them are just that ****ing powerful

Anakin was burned because he was seriously injured by Obi-Wan. Anakin and Obi survived being near the lava the whole fight, Qui-Gon survived being close to molten metal. Jedi have hefty durability to heat

Anyone only bringing up certain showings while ignoring others are cherry picking. I look at all his feats. Every time he has used force crush on a person it took time and they were not instantly killed at all. You're ignoring the on screen evidence again.

Anakin is not that durable. It's also easy to short circuit his suit. He needs it to survive, Caine wise has good durability feats and combat feats. You'd know if you watched the film instead of being some Star Wars fanboy who ignores showings.

And yet the lava burned them. Any of the Star Wars characters at the end who saved him were also near the lava. No one suddenly burned to death by being in Close proximity so quit making things up.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Watch the movie yourself. It isn't uno to me to educate you on Caine wise.

Sorry but no, if you make an assertion you have to back it up, not my job to do your research

Anyone only bringing up certain showings while ignoring others are cherry picking. I look at all his feats.

Actions speak louder than words, your emphasis on low end showings speaks louder than your claims of being "objective"

Every time he has used force crush on a person it took time and they were not instantly killed at all. You're ignoring the on screen evidence again.

He used force choke ya fool. Which is a less destructive use of the force. He never used force crush on a person, then again, when has he ever needed to?

Anakin is not that durable.

Argument from belief

It's also easy to short circuit his suit. He needs it to survive,

Red herring, has nothing to do with durability. And what you're referring to would be a chain reaction, which has nothing to do with durability

Caine wise has good durability feats and combat feats. You'd know if you watched the film instead of being some Star Wars fanboy who ignores showings.

Like I said I don't know of them, if they exist then please, share

And yet the lava burned them. Any of the Star Wars characters at the end who saved him were also near the lava.

Only burned Anakin who was delimbed beforehand

And good for them, since Clone Troopers armor is able to handle high temperatures, and good for Palpatine 👆

No one suddenly burned to death by being in Close proximity so quit making things up.

My god you are immensely stupid

Could you survive being in close proximity to lava? Could you survive being right next to molten metal? Because Jedi and Sith can and have several times

Originally posted by StealthRanger
Sorry but no, if you make an assertion you have to back it up, not my job to do your research

Actions speak louder than words, your emphasis on low end showings speaks louder than your claims of being "objective"

He used force choke ya fool. Which is a less destructive use of the force. He never used force crush on a person, then again, when has he ever needed to?

Argument from belief

Red herring, has nothing to do with durability. And what you're referring to would be a chain reaction, which has nothing to do with durability

Like I said I don't know of them, if they exist then please, share

Only burned Anakin who was delimbed beforehand

And good for them, since Clone Troopers armor is able to handle high temperatures, and good for Palpatine 👆

My god you are immensely stupid

Could you survive being in close proximity to lava? Could you survive being right next to molten metal? Because Jedi and Sith can and have several times

I cite characters weaknesses rather than their strengths when taking than their strengths. It's called debating but I don't ignore any if their showings. That's your entire focus which is incorrect.

So you claim he uses a tactic he's never used here on someone ? Biased much ? Unlike you I debate in facts not wishful thinking.

His body has been reduced to surviving in a suit. 😂 rarely do we ever see a body reduced to the limbless husk that anakin's has been reduced to.

It has to do with exploiting a weakness. It happened and Luke was fine, it's a liability.

Watch the film.

It burned him because it got onto him. It did. It burn him by being near him. Watch the film and everyone near the lava it didn't burn because it didn't touch them. You Star Wars fanboys are stupid. Caine also has greater feats anyways.

Spock has survived in into darkness and no one suddenly burned in Star Wars. Force lightning has ko'd Anakin and their limbs and bodies take an absolute beating. We see jango take out a Jedi with a few blasts.

😂

Originally posted by quanchi112
No, I don't. You don't have to believe me but you admitted you're clueless about the character.

Yeah, you kind of do, it's called Burden of Proof, now show me his speed feats or be reported

I cite characters weaknesses rather than their strengths when taking than their strengths. It's called debating but I don't ignore any if their showings. That's your entire focus which is incorrect.

Thank you for proving my point. Low end showings still do not count as evidence regardless of your bullshit

So you claim he uses a tactic he's never used here on someone ? Biased much ? Unlike you I debate in facts not wishful thinking.

What opportunity existed for him to do so? Why would he need to? Most of the people were Imperial Officers and most others were either Jedi or schmucks who he could pwn regardless

And since CIS/PIS is off, we generally assume they can do these things. I mean **** me, it's not like claiming Vader could TK ****ing photons or dust particles or whatever

His body has been reduced to surviving in a suit. 😂 rarely do we ever see a body reduced to the limbless husk that anakin's has been reduced to.

Red herring

Also good for him, I'd love to see any human survive what Anakin did, humor me. go on

It has to do with exploiting a weakness. It happened and Luke was fine, it's a liability.

Yeah, of course force lightning killed him, because it short circuited his suit, reason he couldn't use force lightning. And good for Luke if he survived force lightning

Watch the film.

Show you can't show me any strength or speed feats that put him well above Vader? Good to know

It burned him because it got onto him. It did. It burn him by being near him.

Been there done that, was severely weakened beforehand and took several minutes to take effect

Watch the film and everyone near the lava it didn't burn because it didn't touch them. You Star Wars fanboys are stupid.

Never said they did you mongoloid. If they can survive being near it without any kind of protective gear, then it still counts as a durability feat

Caine also has greater feats anyways.

Such a shame you can't present them 👆

Spock has survived in into darkness

Good for him

Force lightning has ko'd Anakin and their limbs and bodies take an absolute beating.

>implies being hurt by force lightning is some kind of low end showing

[QUOTEWe see jango take out a Jedi with a few blasts.

😂 [/QUOTE]

Because blasters are far more concentrated in damage. Same reason why heavyweight boxers can punch with kilojoules of force but can't punch through people but a 9mm can penetrate people but only has hundreds of joules of kinetic power

And considering blasters can vaporise 0.5 meter sections of durasteel

Originally posted by StealthRanger
Yeah, you kind of do, it's called Burden of Proof, now show me his speed feats or be reported

Thank you for proving my point. Low end showings still do not count as evidence regardless of your bullshit

What opportunity existed for him to do so? Why would he need to? Most of the people were Imperial Officers and most others were either Jedi or schmucks who he could pwn regardless

And since CIS/PIS is off, we generally assume they can do these things. I mean **** me, it's not like claiming Vader could TK ****ing photons or dust particles or whatever

Red herring

Also good for him, I'd love to see any human survive what Anakin did, humor me. go on

Yeah, of course force lightning killed him, because it short circuited his suit, reason he couldn't use force lightning. And good for Luke if he survived force lightning

Show you can't show me any strength or speed feats that put him well above Vader? Good to know

Been there done that, was severely weakened beforehand and took several minutes to take effect

Never said they did you mongoloid. If they can survive being near it without any kind of protective gear, then it still counts as a durability feat

Such a shame you can't present them 👆

Good for him

>implies being hurt by force lightning is some kind of low end showing

[QUOTEWe see jango take out a Jedi with a few blasts.

😂

Because blasters are far more concentrated in damage. Same reason why heavyweight boxers can punch with kilojoules of force but can't punch through people but a 9mm can penetrate people but only has hundreds of joules of kinetic power

And considering blasters can vaporise 0.5 meter sections of durasteel [/B][/QUOTE] I cannot find it on YouTube so report away, nerd.

Yes, all evidence counts your refusal to accept all the facts is fanboyism. I accept it all.

Why not instantly do so to palpatine while he tortured his son ? Instead he mortally was wounded due to the lightning ? This was when he was fully experienced but still had to toss him over. You can't make up things and pretend he force destroys people's penises because you're a fanboy.

Obi did it, palpatine did it. This is fiction, dude. The lava sure burned him up really good. Once the YouTube clips come on you're going to owe me apologies.

The movie is barely out digitally only so wait. Watch the film before you debate against a character out of pure ignorance.

It burned his flesh and made no difference as it would burn him regardless. He laid there and cried out hateful things to obi because he got wrecked.

Caine Employs lasers which wreck his body so apples to oranges, angry guy.

Glad you agree lasers hurt him because Caine is going to tag his ass often. A far better hand to hand fighter and can cover greater distances with his gravity boots and use hand blasters with impressive skill.

Originally posted by quanchi112 I cannot find it on YouTube so report away, nerd.

Done

Yes, all evidence counts your refusal to accept all the facts is fanboyism. I accept it all.

If you have no arguments except "baww bias" and "low end showings actually do count!", then you have no leg to stand on

Why not instantly do so to palpatine while he tortured his son ? Instead he mortally was wounded due to the lightning ? This was when he was fully experienced but still had to toss him over. You can't make up things and pretend he force destroys people's penises because you're a fanboy.

Because as I said, Jedi and Sith can counter eachother's force powers, hence why they can't just instantly pwn eachother with the force, and Palpatine is overwhelmingly more powerful than Vader

If he can destroy heavily armored vehicles, he can force crush humans. The former is far more energetic

Obi did it, palpatine did it. This is fiction, dude. The lava sure burned him up really good. Once the YouTube clips come on you're going to owe me apologies.

What part of "Jedi are really ****ing durable" is so hard to understand

For a just as impressive feat, Qui Gon survived near contact with molten metal in TPM

The movie is barely out digitally only so wait. Watch the film before you debate against a character out of pure ignorance.

It burned his flesh and made no difference as it would burn him regardless. He laid there and cried out hateful things to obi because he got wrecked.

Been there done that, he was severely weakened and couldn't do anything, hence why he was burned

Caine Employs lasers which wreck his body so apples to oranges, angry guy.

Baseless assertion

Glad you agree lasers hurt him because Caine is going to tag his ass often.

Assertion

A far better hand to hand fighter and can cover greater distances with his gravity boots and use hand blasters with impressive skill. [/B]

Assertion, and "impressive skill", right that sounds totally definitive /sarcasm

Originally posted by StealthRanger
Done

If you have no arguments except "baww bias" and "low end showings actually do count!", then you have no leg to stand on

Because as I said, Jedi and Sith can counter eachother's force powers, hence why they can't just instantly pwn eachother with the force, and Palpatine is overwhelmingly more powerful than Vader

If he can destroy heavily armored vehicles, he can force crush humans. The former is far more energetic

What part of "Jedi are really ****ing durable" is so hard to understand

For a just as impressive feat, Qui Gon survived near contact with molten metal in TPM

The movie is barely out digitally only so wait. Watch the film before you debate against a character out of pure ignorance.

Been there done that, he was severely weakened and couldn't do anything, hence why he was burned

Baseless assertion

Assertion

Assertion, and "impressive skill", right that sounds totally definitive /sarcasm

I cited showings that do count you don't have one feat of Vader insta crushing any humanoid. No leg to stand on.

Obi was force choked, Yoda force pushed palpatine back without a counter, and maul force pushed obi over without a counter. Evidence.

Caine is near fiery lava, hurricanes in the film and has no issues unlike Anakin who burned.

It touched him so it burned him. At full power lava burns him, sport.

Watch the film and see his skill.

Your ignorance isn't a defense. You're clueless on Caine. Stick to threads you know about both characters.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Hahahahahha.

I cited showings that do count you don't have one feat of Vader insta crushing any humanoid. No leg to stand on.

You've presented absolutely nothing of actual merit

If he can crush an AT-AT he can crush a humanoid, crushing a heavily armored vehicles that can tank heavy laser cannons is a massively superior feat to crushing flesh and bone 👆

Obi was force choked, Yoda force pushed palpatine back without a counter, and maul force pushed obi over without a counter. Evidence.

Obi was force choked by Dooku, who was superior to him. Maul was superior to Obi as well at the time

Caine is near fiery lava, hurricanes in the film and has no issues unlike Anakin who burned.

Okay so Caine has comparable heat resistance good for him. How powerful was the hurricane?

I mean, let's not ignore where Anakin and Obi were near lava the whole time during their fight and were just fine

It touched him so it burned him. At full power lava burns him, sport.

He never came into direct contact with lava you fool. And been there done that, several damn times, moving on

Watch the film and see his skill.

Sorry, not my job to find your feats for you

Your ignorance isn't a defense. You're clueless on Caine. Stick to threads you know about both characters.

I accept your concession

Originally posted by StealthRanger
You've presented absolutely nothing of actual merit

If he can crush an AT-AT he can crush a humanoid, crushing a heavily armored vehicles that can tank heavy laser cannons is a massively superior feat to crushing flesh and bone 👆

Obi was force choked by Dooku, who was superior to him. Maul was superior to Obi as well at the time

Okay so Caine has comparable heat resistance good for him. How powerful was the hurricane?

I mean, let's not ignore where Anakin and Obi were near lava the whole time during their fight and were just fine

He never came into direct contact with lava you fool. And been there done that, several damn times, moving on

Sorry, not my job to find your feats for you

I accept your concession

Timing is everything. Maul was a better fighter so he waited for an opening to do so. No excuse for Yoda. It's all the same thing.

Hurricanes were all over Jupiter iirc. Watch the films as none of this proves anything. If a laser hits Anakin he bleeds so lava is a moot point and irrelevant.

It burned him. Why else would he stop burning ? He was in the same position. It touched him.

You are admittedly ignorant. Your problem not mine.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Excelt he has used the tactic against humans and it takes a while. 😂 evidence.

Force choking is different from force crushing 👆

Anakin force crushing several medical droids instantly, oh and Dooku ripping/crushing bolted machinery in AOTC

Timing is everything. Maul was a better fighter so he waited for an opening to do so. No excuse for Yoda. It's all the same thing.

Palpatine was monologuing about hoe the Jedi were no more. Of course that's an opening, you fool

Maul being a Sith Lord was more powerful than some Jedi apprentice schmuck

Hurricanes were all over Jupiter iirc.

How powerful were they?

If a laser hits Anakin he bleeds so lava is a moot point and irrelevant.

Never said Caine couldn't kill Anakin

It burned him. Why else would he stop burning ? He was in the same position. It touched him.

Can you prove that lava made direct contact with him? You don't need to bother, I know for a fact that there's nothing

You are admittedly ignorant. Your problem not mine.

I heard your concession the first time m8

Vader snaps his neck. He did that casually to a stormtrooper. Twisted his head around.

Originally posted by StealthRanger
Force choking is different from force crushing 👆

Anakin force crushing several medical droids instantly, oh and Dooku ripping/crushing bolted machinery in AOTC

Palpatine was monologuing about hoe the Jedi were no more. Of course that's an opening, you fool

Maul being a Sith Lord was more powerful than some Jedi apprentice schmuck

How powerful were they?

Never said Caine couldn't kill Anakin

Can you prove that lava made direct contact with him? You don't need to bother, I know for a fact that there's nothing

I heard your concession the first time m8

Maul had to fight him and wait for the opening. He couldn't just force push him at will he had to wait for an opening. You haven't the faintest how combat works. Glad you agree with palpatine that timing is everything.

Powerful.

Glad you agree.

He wouldn't have stopped burning if it was just due to close proximity. It touched him and then burned out. Quit saying nonsensical things.

You admitted you hadn't seen this film so it's a fact at this point you're ignorant.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Givr an example of him force crushing a humanoid in combat. If you can't then it's a baseless claim.

Crushing durasteel armor that can tank heavy laser cannons is a massively superior feat to crushing a human of which is much less durable.

Claiming he can't do something even though it'd logically be within his powerset to do so is against the rules. Reported for stonewalling 👆

Maul had to fight him and wait for the opening.

Not stated anywhere. Maul's style is physically overpowering people, unlike most Sith who are about breaking their opponent's morale

He couldn't just force push him at will he had to wait for an opening. You haven't the faintest how combat works.

Oh that's rich coming from you of all people

Powerful.

Useless statement unless you back it up and quantify the shit you present

Glad you agree.

No all he needs to do is just hit Vader or survive Vader's attacks 👆

He wouldn't have stopped burning if it was just due to close proximity. It touched him and then burned out. Quit saying nonsensical things.

IOW you can't present proof Anakin made direct contact with lava. Glad to hear it

You admitted you hadn't seen this film so it's a fact at this point you're ignorant.

I heard you the first two times, don't need to say you're conceding the third time 👆

Originally posted by StealthRanger
Crushing durasteel armor that can tank heavy laser cannons is a massively superior feat to crushing a human of which is much less durable.

Claiming he can't do something even though it'd logically be within his powerset to do so is against the rules. Reported for stonewalling 👆

Not stated anywhere. Maul's style is physically overpowering people, unlike most Sith who are about breaking their opponent's morale

Oh that's rich coming from you of all people

Useless statement unless you back it up and quantify the shit you present

No all he needs to do is just hit Vader or survive Vader's attacks 👆

IOW you can't present proof Anakin made direct contact with lava. Glad to hear it

I heard you the first two times, don't need to say you're conceding the third time 👆

We see it. Is maul some idiot who fights and fights when he can win at any time ? No. Any great fighter attacks at pivotal moments when there are openings.

Watch the film.

He can survive vader's attacks and has a shield as well to block the saber if he gets close.

Watch the film, nerd.

You admit you're agprguijg out of bias with no knowledge whatsoever of the opposition.