Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
I also get your point and your example. The problem is that you tried to say BW is superhuman.. and I don't agree with that. I think she's super skilled and thus she can look superhuman, but ultimately she's not. She's not more durable.. she's not stronger.. she doesn't have any cool powers. She's just really skilled. That skill can go a long ways, but that doesn't make her superhuman or even peak human stats wise.
No. my point was that Black Widow is NOT super human. Even though she does some amazing things. Same with the watchmen (sans ozy and Dr.M)
Actually what you said in your post about BW is exactly what im saying about the watchmen 🙂
No I'd being 100% factually correct in saying I kept up with mike Tyson momentarily. A moment could be a second.. a half a second.. 10 seconds. What we know is that it's ever so brief. So I'd be a 1005 in saying that I kept up with him momentarily. Even though that isn't a good description of the fight. Same thing here, ultron clearly and decisively outclasses Cap. He simply can't keep up with him. That's the plain and simple truth of the matter.
I never said you added momentarily after you made your initial post. I said you added that to cover your bases to make that statement more correct. Which it did, but still doesn't make it a good or accurate description of the fight is my point.
I believe that after AOU.. yes, I can see Cap winning and have no issue with people picking him. He very well could win.
let me ask you this
Ozy vs. The first avenger Cap only
Ozy vs. The first avenger plus Winter soldier only
What are the ?/10 numbers you'd give for these fights
Originally posted by tkitna
Lol. Do you think Rorschach and Nite-Owl would hit Cap if he didn't want to be hit? The only difference between their fight with Ozy and a fight with Cap is that Cap could have killed either one with a single blow and I don't believe Ozy could do the same.
Wut??? Do I believe they would hit him? YES, and more than one. Multiple blows. How do you think they wouldn't. Less skilled fodder landed on Cap, yet people who decimated less skilled fodder wouldn't? Odd logical line of progression there Kitna... Comic book forum withdrawals?
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Wut??? Do I believe they would hit him? YES, and more than one. Multiple blows. How do you think they wouldn't. Less skilled fodder landed on Cap, yet people who decimated less skilled fodder wouldn't? Odd logical line of progression there Kitna... Comic book forum withdrawals?
I don't believe they would hit him because of 3 reasons.
1. First, one strike from Captain America would probably kill those two clowns (at the least rendering them unconscious) thus ending the fight within seconds.
2. He is vastly more skilled than a guy who beat up a few gangbangers and another that got taken captive by the city cops. Seriously, there is nothing impressive at all about Nite-Owl and Rorschach. I cant believe you think there is.
3. In this fight, Cap wont be holding back to just contain and defuse the situation. He'll be out for blood.
Its just staggering to me that you feel Ozy could take this fight. A better matchup would be Black Widow or even Netflix Daredevil, but movie Cap is so far out of Ozymandias's league that its not even funny. Not sure why its so hard for you to see.
Originally posted by tkitna
I don't believe they would hit him because of 3 reasons.1. First, one strike from Captain America would probably kill those two clowns (at the least rendering them unconscious) thus ending the fight within seconds.
2. He is vastly more skilled than a guy who beat up a few gangbangers and another that got taken captive by the city cops. Seriously, there is nothing impressive at all about Nite-Owl and Rorschach. I cant believe you think there is.
3. In this fight, Cap wont be holding back to just contain and defuse the situation. He'll be out for blood.
Its just staggering to me that you feel Ozy could take this fight. A better matchup would be Black Widow or even Netflix Daredevil, but movie Cap is so far out of Ozymandias's league that its not even funny. Not sure why its so hard for you to see.
he may win now because of AOU feats... But he certainly wouldn't win after The First Avenger. Mostly likely not after WS either. So you're I CAN'T BELIEVE schtick is perplexing. It would be only as of very recently, that Cap would clearly win according to you, so no grandstanding needed here buddy.
The reality is this, and there is no getting around this fact, LESS SKILLED FODDER TAGGED CAP. MULTIPLE TIMES. On the other hand, people that treated fodder like feebs and decimated them couldn't land a single blow o Ozy. How you can't grasp this simple line of logical progression is beyond me. Cap was literally tagged multiple times by less skilled foes than people who couldn't land a blow on Ozy. That's the reality.
You're all quite off on my stance. I don't think people are way off for picking cap, nor do I disagree that he could take a majority. He could. So this whole notion that I can't see how Cap could win is simply not true. What I believe is, Ozy is faster and more skilled than Cap (decisively so in this area) and that could keep him in the fight and win him some fights. Simple.
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
The reality is this, and there is no getting around this fact, LESS SKILLED FODDER TAGGED CAP. MULTIPLE TIMES. On the other hand, people that treated fodder like feebs and decimated them couldn't land a single blow o Ozy. How you can't grasp this simple line of logical progression is beyond me. Cap was literally tagged multiple times by less skilled foes than people who couldn't land a blow on Ozy. That's the reality.
Who were these less skilled fodder you speak of? Trained military soldiers? Hydra Agents? Mercenaries? Surely your not talking about Shield Agents are you?
The best feats you can come up for Nite-Owl and Rorschach is that Nite-Owl went through a dozen or so prisoners with the help of Silk Spectre. A feat in which Captain America could do by himself in his sleep. Is that what impressed you so much? That Nite-Owl "decimated' 10 or so joe schmo thugs? Come on man.
Even the lowest people that Cap fought (military soldiers probably) aren't that far behind Nite-Owl.
Originally posted by KuRuPT ThanosiBatroc showed more speed, skill and atheticism than Nite-Owl, I suspect this is likely due to GSP being a highly ranked professional MMA fighter and Patrick Wilson being a regular guy/actor who put on a bunch of weight for a role.
Yes, and those same people not "far" behind Nite-Owl were able to hit Cap multiple times on different occasions. Yet, none of them were able to land a single blow on Ozy... Notice a decisive skill difference here?
Before you reply with "Batroc landed hits!", yes, he did, while Cap was holding back. After Cap stopped holding back, Batroc got his ass kicked in moments.
Ozy does have the edge on speed, but the reason it worked for him against Rorsh and Owl was because he didn't have to worry about them connecting, and when they did, didn't do much to him.
Where is Cap will connect either right away of shorty after and then will break Ozy. Bucky couldn't even KO him with his metal arm to the face with multiple hits, so how is Ozy going too?
His latest fight with Ultron proves even further that fists made of metal have little effect on him.
Originally posted by Silent Master
He'll ignore all of this and just pretend that Ozy displayed far more skill and fighting speed. Then he'll pretend that Ozy displayed enough strength to get past Cap's massive durability edge.
There is no pretending Ozy is more skilled or faster... Multiple people have said the same thing. Even people picking Cap to win admit Ozy is more skilled. How do I need to pretend anything shoes? His durability edge is why I'm hesitant to pick Ozy for a majority. If this fight was based on skill only... Ozy would decisively win.
Originally posted by Robtard
Batroc showed more speed, skill and atheticism than Nite-Owl, I suspect this is likely due to GSP being a highly ranked professional MMA fighter and Patrick Wilson being a regular guy/actor who put on a bunch of weight for a role.Before you reply with "Batroc landed hits!", yes, he did, while Cap was holding back. After Cap stopped holding back, Batroc got his ass kicked in moments.
How do you rate the comedian then?
Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Ozy does have the edge on speed, but the reason it worked for him against Rorsh and Owl was because he didn't have to worry about them connecting, and when they did, didn't do much to him.Where is Cap will connect either right away of shorty after and then will break Ozy. Bucky couldn't even KO him with his metal arm to the face with multiple hits, so how is Ozy going too?
His latest fight with Ultron proves even further that fists made of metal have little effect on him.
that's just it though, they never really connected on him because of his skill and speed you speak of. That's the point I've been making. Yet people way less skilled than ozy were able to connect on Cap with limited issue. The only thing cap has going for him is his durability and stamina... these factors are in the favor of Cap and make me wonder if Ozy can do enough to hurt him
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
How do you rate the comedian then?
He was little more than a skilled brawler on screen.
He threw a cup, went for his gun, got punched around, threw some punches, got punched around some more, threw a knife, threw another knife, got punched around some more. Definitely a formidable guy all things considered, but he didn't show speed, athleticism and skill like Batroc.
edit: "Skilled Brawler" might be a little too low for Comedian. But the scene played out pretty much how I listed it.
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
that's just it though, they never really connected on him because of his skill and speed you speak of. That's the point I've been making. Yet people way less skilled than ozy were able to connect on Cap with limited issue. The only thing cap has going for him is his durability and stamina... these factors are in the favor of Cap and make me wonder if Ozy can do enough to hurt him
There really is no comparison to Rorschach and Owl. Cap is leagues above them. Say Ozy dodges 8 out of 10 punches Cap throws, with those 2 he connects with are going to hurt, then the next 10 cap throws he dodges 6 outa 10. You see where this is going. The hits cap is putting out is like a pile driver and going to massively impact Ozy's continued fight because he is going to be in serious pain, from internal injuries, netting Cap the ultimate win.
Don't disagree with much there... The longer the fight goes it certainly will favor Cap. The big thing Ozy needs to overcome is the durability of Cap... and that is a tall order. As I said before
Ozy vs. The first avenger = Ozy convincingly
Ozy vs. WS + FA = Ozy after an excellent fight and not a dominate majority
Ozy vs. WS +FA + AOU = tough fight, Cap probably should be made the betting favorite because of his strength and durability. Probably in the realm of -60 to -140 vegas odds.