Originally posted by ILS
3. His lightning would just piss Savage off, and there's no guarantee he'd land too significantly with it anyway considering Savage is the better fighter at this stage in time.
Malgus' lightning chewed through a very powerful Jedi's lightsaber defense and still packed enough of a punch to burn holes in him. He's putting Opress down. And lol, Savage is a lumbering giant, he's not dodging or avoiding Malgus' lightning or engaging him "too quick" to pull it off. Also Malgus is way more skilled, come on.
Originally posted by NephthysDozens of blaster bolts would replicate that effect on the same Jedi, plenty of times over.
Malgus' lightning chewed through a very powerful Jedi's lightsaber defense and still packed enough of a punch to burn holes in him. He's putting Opress down. And lol, Savage is a lumbering giant, he's not dodging or avoiding Malgus' lightning or engaging him "too quick" to pull it off. Also Malgus is way more skilled, come on.
Lumbering giant, eh?
2:37:
watch?v=-7hBZNsPnyg
I didn't say Savage would outright dodge his lightning or be too quick for Malgus to let it loose anyway; what I am suggesting is that given Malgus' tendency to primarily duel opponents, that once locked in that kind of combat it'd be hard for him to come back out of it and pour enough lightning onto Savage to end the fight entirely. Savage would fight through whatever burst he manages and possibly even benefit from it, as dark siders do with pain, and as Savage has done before.
Malgus isn't way more skilled. A comparison of feats contradict this. I'm sorry if you and so many others think it's the case by principle that Savage has the skill of a padawan with a lightsaber but, unfortunately for you guys, it isn't the case.
Originally posted by ILS
I wouldn't call anyone's viewpoint irrational, but pardon me if I'm getting the impression that there's a bit of TOR circle jerking taking place at the expense of a character who's already heavily underrated 😉
It's not only you who does this, actually it's the entire forum really but do you guys not see how funny it is to call out people for sucking dick, when there's one two in your mouth too? Sure, call people out for Malgus wank but it's a little weird when you're fitting the brother's dicks in your mouth. I ain't judging, you can suck all you want, but you can't call someone out on that too.
Regardless while your assessment with Malgus may end up being right, your disbelief with Savage's skill is a delight. You only mention his offense output by saying "You don't defeat Ventress or Plo Koon, or drive back Obi-Wan and Anakin simultaneously on strength alone" yet ignore his defensive deficiencies with his getting easily tagged by Dooku's lightning, or getting his arm chopped off by Obi-Wan with Maul's help.
Originally posted by BasedWould someone who has two Nightbrother dicks in his mouth assert that Deceived Malgus can defeat Darth Maul - Maul being the dick suckers favourite character? No? Then I guess you don't really have a case for me being a SWTORetard tier debater.
It's not only you who does this, actually it's the entire forum really but do you guys not see how funny it is to call out people for sucking dick, when there'sonetwo in your mouth too? Sure, call people out for Malgus wank but it's a little weird when you're fitting the brother's dicks in your mouth. I ain't judging, you can suck all you want, but you can't call someone out on that too.
Regardless while your assessment with Malgus may end up being right, your disbelief with Savage's skill is a delight. You only mention his offense output by saying "You don't defeat Ventress or Plo Koon, or drive back Obi-Wan and Anakin simultaneously on strength alone" [1]yet ignore his defensive deficiencies with his getting easily tagged by Dooku's lightning, [2]or getting his arm chopped off by Obi-Wan with Maul's help.I like how you're now the primary source for not only what dicks I'm sucking, but what I'm leaving out of my analysis. You got precog, brah?
1. As I said, it appears that Savage learnt from his first time being attacked by lightning in a combat situation ala cut content. That aside? I have no issue with declaring that Savage's defence to Force powers is a weak area. I've only been discussing his skill in lightsaber to lightsaber combat.
Personally, I think it's pretty unreasonable to suggest that Savage has "very little skill" or what have you. He's displayed disarming techniques, has mastered the saberstaff with barely any training time - which requires an especially masterful fighter to do so (Darth Maul: Shadow Hunter), otherwise one ends up cutting themselves in half (Jedi vs Sith: Essential Guide to the Force), and has gone toe to toe with some of the best fighters of his era (Ventress, Plo Koon, Obi-Wan and Anakin).
Was strength his biggest asset? Sure. But it's also not an asset that, say, Anakin, who can crush duranium in his grasp or, Grievous, who can dent a starfighter with his strikes and throw Obi-Wan around with "effortless strength", are lacking - and yet, they manage to exchange blows with the same people Savage does without their strength bowling over the competition completely. So again, while strength factors in, it's not the type of attribute that can drastically alter the outcome of a close fight without a degree of lightsaber mastery backing it.
2. Take it for what you will, but in Darth Maul: Shadow Conspiracy, it's detailed that Obi-Wan's success was in large part due to him both startling the brothers with his exceedingly aggressive fighting style, and because the cramped environment was causing the brothers to walk into each other. It was stated that Kenobi would have died, without a doubt, without those edges. This should be self-evident from the show too but it's good to have it in print.
Further to the point - outside of Florrum, Savage has had some very decent showings against Obi-Wan. There's his brief skirmish with him and Anakin when he's capturing the Toydorian king guy, where his defence was sufficient enough to survive that encounter. There was the time he semi caught Kenobi off-guard and managed to cause him some trouble with his strength. And there was the time with Anakin and Obi-Wan simultaneously.
People manage to hold Dooku and Florrum against Savage in every single thread, as if a character isn't allowed to lose some of the time without being defined almost entirely by those losses for the rest of time, despite his many successes. It's just pitiful debating.
I hope that answers your queries.
Savage has combat skill given he not only came from a Warrior Clan, but was chosen by Ventress as the best amongst them.
What he lacks is skill and training in the Force. But then Grievous doesn't even have the Force and he manages to be a big threat against Jedi. Whilst Opress can use it well enough to deflect multiple blaster fire, and Force pushes.
Training or not, fact is Opress has proven he can defeat most Jedi Council Members.
@ ILS,
Dooku's obviously superior to Hope Malgus in usage of the Force but Dooku wasn't even trying there. He was dueling Ventress and sending half ass lighting strikes at Savage at the same time. Hope Malgus going all out with his lightning against him should at least do some critical damage to Savage which would give Malgus more advantage in melee. Malgus is a superior tank and yes he is more skilled lol. Savage would have to be smart about how he approaches Malgus and also abuse the force with TK. In this scenario, I can see him defeating Malgus I guess. Not for a majority though.
Originally posted by Sinious1. Which is why using him as a comparison isn't the best idea.
@ ILS,[1]Dooku's obviously superior to Hope Malgus in usage of the Force [2]but Dooku wasn't even trying there. He was dueling Ventress and sending half ass lighting strikes at Savage at the same time. [3]Hope Malgus going all out with his lightning against him should at least do some critical damage to Savage which would give Malgus more advantage in melee. [4]Malgus is a superior tank and yes he is more skilled lol. [5]Savage would have to be smart about how he approaches Malgus and also abuse the force with TK. [6]In this scenario, I can see him defeating Malgus I guess. Not for a majority though.
2. According to what? He was fighting for his life. And for the record, Dooku's same "half assed" lightning strikes with one hand staggered the saber defence of Kenobi and Tiplee at the same time, and has also caused Darth frikkin' Maul of all people to scream in pain.
3. I still don't see any evidence on your part for Malgus' lightning being enough to overwhelm Savage's durability. Dooku's lightning is a poor comparison here because his is stronger than Malgus', quite plainly. It's also in question as to whether or not Malgus would have much of an opportunity to use lightning while he's fighting the superior combatant in close proximity. And cut content.
4. Ah, more baseless declarations. Savage has three dicks!
5. It's not a necessity at all, he just needs to be a better fighter than Malgus, which he is. He's pretty smart either way.
6. It'll have to do.
1) Which is why I explained why I compared them.
2) Dooku wasn't dueling Ventress simultaneously in those instances so they're irrelevant.
3) Savage displayed weakness in this area. He is a lot more capable in TK for example. But even his master lacks knowledge on lightning so I don't expect him to do well against it lol.
4) Unless Savage took his pants off and swung his diglett at some point, this is a wrong comparison.
5) Nah.
6) Not necessarily. 😖hifty:
Originally posted by ILS
Would someone who has two Nightbrother dicks in his mouth assert that Deceived Malgus can defeat Darth Maul - Maul being the dick suckers favourite character? No? Then I guess you don't really have a case for me being a SWTORetard tier debater.
I'm just saying we all have biases. I wouldn't call you out as Legend level or anything.
Personally, I think it's pretty unreasonable to suggest that Savage has "very little skill" or what have you. He's displayed disarming techniques, has mastered the saberstaff with barely any training time - which requires an especially masterful fighter to do so (Darth Maul: Shadow Hunter), otherwise one ends up cutting themselves in half (Jedi vs Sith: Essential Guide to the Force), and has gone toe to toe with some of the best fighters of his era (Ventress, Plo Koon, Obi-Wan and Anakin).
Sure, I'll concede on calling him unskilled can be unfair given its connotation. However in this forum where for the most part, the best of the mythos are used in which Savage's skill doesn't compare.
Was strength his biggest asset? Sure. But it's also not an asset that, say, Anakin, who can crush duranium in his grasp or, Grievous, who can dent a starfighter with his strikes and throw Obi-Wan around with "effortless strength", are lacking - and yet, they manage to exchange blows with the same people Savage does without their strength bowling over the competition completely. So again, while strength factors in, it's not the type of attribute that can drastically alter the outcome of a close fight without a degree of lightsaber mastery backing it.
I'll also concede that he has "a degree of lightsaber mastery" in regards to offensive technique and prowess. His defense is another story. Savage is always on the offense, especially against Jedi, to the point where they are more worried above surviving than attacking. His offensive relentlessness is his defense. With Savage swinging away with a distinct power advantage in most cases, his opponents tend to try and kick him to catch him off guard. It didn't matter as Adi Galia tried to do here. Savage's physical stats are too much for that to be effective. Also of note, Adi didn't throw one offensive attack besides that kick showing that Savage doesn't show defensive technique or rather doesn't need to for most opponents. His defense is going all out on offense. Though later in that video, Obi-Wan was able to land a successful kick.
Which is why I'm glad you mentioned..
Obi-Wan's success was in large part due to him both startling the brothers with his exceedingly aggressive fighting style.
The key to fighting Savage is to not let him have his way on offense, but rather also showing aggression to attack his weak defense. As you wrote, Obi-Wan's rare aggressiveness was able to chop up his arm. Therefore going against Sith, Savage will always have a bad time since Sith are always aggressive.
Dooku just spammed lightning though all Savage had to do was sue his lightsaber to block it. He couldn't on multiple occasions.
Ventress without a lightsaber was able to land in some blows, again ineffective not because of technique but because of superior physicality.
When one is aggressive and does't have a physical barrier to overcome, Savage gets taken out easily.
If all other factors equal, speed, strength, durability, stamina, etc, Savage would get the dick kicked out of him because of his lack of defensive capabilities. If Adi or Ventress weren't so physically weak, Savage would have had immeasurably harder fights.
There's his brief skirmish with him and Anakin when he's capturing the Toydorian king guy, where his defence was sufficient enough to survive that encounter.
There was the time he semi caught Kenobi off-guard and managed to cause him some trouble with his strength.
And there was the time with Anakin and Obi-Wan simultaneously.
You mean the time he raged charged them after Dooku and Ventress? Again a showing of his offensive output but looking back on this there's not many times Savage actually showed a defense. He lasted like 3 seconds against Sidious alone.
Most of this sounds fair, Based. Shall reply to what we disagree on.
I'll also concede that he has "a degree of lightsaber mastery" in regards to offensive technique and prowess. His defense is another story. Savage is always on the offense, especially against Jedi, to the point where they are more worried above surviving than attacking. His offensive relentlessness is his defense. With Savage swinging away with a distinct power advantage in most cases, his opponents tend to try and kick him to catch him off guard. It didn't matter as Adi Galia tried to do here. Savage's physical stats are too much for that to be effective. Also of note, Adi didn't throw one offensive attack besides that kick showing that Savage doesn't show defensive technique or rather doesn't need to for most opponents. His defense is going all out on offense. Though later in that video, Obi-Wan was able to land a successful kick.
You are correct that a big bonus for Savage is his overwhelming offence, and his defence isn't the greatest out there. It is, however, serviceable. Which is what allowed him to take on Plo Koon and a crowd of Clonetroopers at the same time and come out with nothing but a win and an artificial knick on his leg.
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111114474/3766040-maul+and+savage+vs+jedi2.jpg
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Considering Plo Koon's mastery of Djem So I'd say that if Savage can take this guy on while having to deflect blaster fire and sustain such little damage as a result, that he has a very fair shot at Malgus across the board.
Also, I find it lacking that most of this discussion has been about what Savage can't do or what people that aren't Malgus have managed to do to him opposed to, say, what Malgus himself is capable of. Not targeted just at you, but the thread in it's majority.
The key to fighting Savage is to not let him have his way on offense, but rather also showing aggression to attack his weak defense. As you wrote, Obi-Wan's rare aggressiveness was able to chop up his arm.Eh, no. That's not what I said or what happened. Kenobi's offence startled both Maul and Savage and not because of a particular weakness on either of their parts - it was because they were just not expecting Kenobi of all people to start going crazy like that. And the environment was hindering them, preventing Savage from moving around. Not the same as what Malgus could replicate.
Therefore going against Sith, Savage will always have a bad time since Sith are always aggressive.This isn't really based on anything.
Dooku just spammed lightning though all Savage had to do was sue his lightsaber to block it. He couldn't on multiple occasions.Yeah - his first time fighting against it after a few months of training maximum. And again, cut content revealed that Savage learned how to deflect lightning in the end. If you don't buy that (I think you should personally, and it only makes sense in all reality anyway that he'd learn from it) then I stand by the durability argument, at least for some majority.
Ventress without a lightsaber was able to land in some blows, again ineffective not because of technique but because of superior physicality.Is this the game where we see who can post the most feats from irrelevant characters and apply them to the one we're supporting? If so I guess it's my turn. Satele kicked Malgus in the face and held off his strength with one arm while breaking a tree. Considering Savage kicks Plo Koon in the face for lulz and is a physical monster, the notion that Malgus' strength would bother him is sheer lunacy.When one is aggressive and does't have a physical barrier to overcome, Savage gets taken out easily.
Sounds pretty silly, doesn't it?
Savage has some issue with especially agile and acrobatic characters, such as Ventress, but his durability usually wins out. This doesn't correlate to Malgus whose acrobatics operate in a similar fashion to Savage's - the odd defensive leap or flip in between sequences but remaining flat footed for the most part.
Maul? Are we suggesting that Maul with his hella powerful enchanted legs and ridiculous martial arts skill is meant to be comparable to Hope Malgus?
If all other factors equal, speed, strength, durability, stamina, etc, Savage would get the dick kicked out of him because of his lack of defensive capabilities.That's essentially like saying "yeah, well Batman would **** Supes' day up if they took powers out of the equation!"
If Adi or Ventress weren't so physically weak, Savage would have had immeasurably harder fights.I still don't see how this applies to Malgus. Good for them and good for Savage if they can give each other good fights. The comparisons you are drawing are frankly all over the place atm.
It was like a 3 second encounter in which Obi-Wan could not have been aggressive unless he wanted to risk cutting up the king on Savage's back.He was aggressive enough to cut for Savage's legs and pursue him across platforms - didn't work. Not saying it was a particularly long fight though, but actually having space demonstrably helps.
Which time?
You mean the time he raged charged them after Dooku and Ventress? Again a showing of his offensive output but looking back on this there's not many times Savage actually showed a defense. He lasted like 3 seconds against Sidious alone.It was hardly just a rage charge, visually speaking. He displayed some fancy twirls and shit.
And please, please, please, please, please, please do not make a serious argument for why Sidious embarrassing Savage has any bearing whatsoever on how Malgus would perform. Sidious would absolutely eradicate this iteration of Malgus.
Malgus comfortably.
B/W Malgus (Hope) telekinetic showings include:
1. Preventing several tons of debris from crushing him beneath and then blowing it apart - this while being badly wounded.
Malgus stood in a pocket under a mountain of rubble, legs bent, the power from his upraised hands preventing several tons of duracrete and steel from crushing him. Dust made his already troubled breathing more difficult. He coughed as the words of his father echoed in his mind.
He'd been sloppy, so lost in his need for revenge that he'd failed to properly evaluate the Jedi's power. He'd surrendered his reason to bloodlust. But no more. With an effort of will, he contained his anger, controlled it, made it a whetstone against which he sharpened his power. Using the Force, he blew the rubble up and away from him. It fell with a crash into the adjacent buildings. A Force-augmented leap carried him out and over the heap. The Jedi's eyes widened as Malgus hit the street. Malgus sneered and charged.
Taken from Star Wars: The Old Republic: The Third Lesson
2. Telekinetically gripping Satele Shan and knocking her into a tree, cornering her.
And do I need to explain how powerful Satele Shan was at this time?
