Part of the reason Savage does so well is because most opponents cannot handle his super human strength. Its not the Savage is skilled, really he isn't, he is just a monster. But when facing Malgus who has strength of Savage caliber , Savages strength is nullified and Malgus holds the skill edge over him. Savage can't bludgeon his way to victory this time
I never bought the whole notion that Savage is better than the B-team based on Filoni's statement. Filoni was referring to the fight he put up before he was killed, which had Sids' saber shut off almost half the fight. You can't really compare two fights that were handled very differently (and there's no way getting around that it was handled differently). I also question if Filoni has even watched the movies considering he's gotten so many elements wrong.
Originally posted by Sinious
Ah I see.How do you get that from Plo vs Savage? I don't remember it with details but IIRC, we didn't see much of the fight.
Malgus has insane strength and tanking feats. In Return as an apprentice, he displays an extraordinary level of physical power. In Thrid Lesson which took place right after Hope where Malgus is wounded, he still managed to display his strength against a Zabrak(ironically) Jedi. Satele holding him off only proves her own strength, not Malgus' weakness. I agree that Savage probably has a slight edge in this criteria though.
Do you think Savage is actually that good though? I mean, he did get hurt and couldn't walk properly when he came to Dathomir. I always assumed it was the armor since Savage lacks tutaminis showings and wears an armor. I don't have a source for it but that is one logical explanation of it. Its still impressive but I don't think its very relevant against lightning. And to compare lightning and blaster bolts, while I do think that lightning is a more destructive energy, its easier for another force user to learn how to defend against it compared to blaster bolts and thats why blasters appear to be more lethal. So not knowing the technique could cause some problems for Savage.
Savage was a distraction for Dooku that kept him from destroying Ventress and he wasn't competing with Ventress in a force fight so how much power he was dishing out isn't that related to why he couldn't defeat Ventress easily. And look at how Ventress defended against his lightning there. Savage did a lot worse than Ventress. The scene basically makes it clear that lightning attacks are his weakness.
Not sure about skill but I more or less agree with that.
Can't believe how I forgot about that.
That he was able to walk at all, after being in two fights that had him attacked by several lightning attacks and a shower of blaster bolts, really isn't proof that it was his armor, more like he's just that tuff. Nightsister magic was used to more than buff him up I'd say. He's a monster, as Dooku said. We've seen monsters such as gutkurrs and lyleks shrug off blaster bolts (Damn, Palpatine shredded and handful with a blast of lightning). Why can't we accept Savage can do the same after he was transformed?
Get to the rest later, maybe.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66Meh, I would disagree. While the fights may not exactly replicate one another, I think its evident by looking at specific parts that he did better.
I never bought the whole notion that Savage is better than the B-team based on Filoni's statement. Filoni was referring to the fight he put up before he was killed, which had Sids' saber shut off almost half the fight. You can't really compare two fights that were handled very differently (and there's no way getting around that it was handled differently).
For one Savage is capable of perceiving Sidious' moves and intercepts accordingly:
That already places him above the B-Team bar Fisto.
He moves fast enough to land a blow:
Savage even manages to push Sidious back with his strength:
Credit where credit is due I feel. Certainly a lot better than any one of the B-Team.
I also question if Filoni has even watched the movies considering he's gotten so many elements wrong.Lol considering that he was personally mentored by George would presided over the whole thing, I find that unlikely.
Not that Lucas hasn't contradicted himself in the past.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Meh, I would disagree. While the fights may not exactly replicate one another, I think its evident by looking at specific parts that he did better.For one Savage is capable of perceiving Sidious' moves and intercepts accordingly:
That already places him above the B-Team bar Fisto.
He moves fast enough to land a blow:
Savage even manages to push Sidious back with his strength:
Credit where credit is due I feel. Certainly a lot better than any one of the B-Team.Lol considering that he was personally mentored by George would presided over the whole thing, I find that unlikely.
Not that Lucas hasn't contradicted himself in the past.
The reason they even saberlocked was because Sidious, again, wasn't fighting with the same demeanor as he was against B-Team: going straight for the kill (with Windu being alongside them, I don't blame him). There's no reason to assume that Palpatine was fighting them at full speed, considering Savage isn't faster than Fisto based on outside performances, the fact that Sidious wasn't going straight for the kill (he lets them go when he had the opportunity to follow through with another attack while they were plastered to the wall), and the fact that Palpatine. per Filoni, was enjoying himself during that battle, and, per Palpatine, wasn't even intending to kill Maul in the first place. Palpatine's demeanor for both fights were completely opposite, and really can't be compared. It's like comparing his lightning attack on Luke to his lightning attack on Yoda. One (Luke) was handling it for about a minute, the other (Yoda) was rendered unconscious. Two different scenarios.
You're bringing up Savage's seeming strong points, but ignoring Palpatine's different intent and demeanor compared to his during his fight with B-team. In other words, you can't compare a relentless Palpatine to a very relenting and playful one.
Filoni just picked up where George left off, but I have no reason to take his opinion on a fight he had absolutely nothing to do with as a canon source, unless his intent was to present Savage as being better than the saber masters, which it wasn't, considering how differently Sidious went about each fight, and the fact that the whole purpose was to depict Sidious clear superiority while enjoying himself per Filoni. His comment was an off hand remark, nothing more.
In fact, Savage isn't faster than Kolar. If we take fights as they are presented, without considering the context, Kolar handled Vos with the same amount of ease as Dooku did, and fought with equal speed as the count. But considering that Dooku wasn't going for the kill, then I doubt Dooku would go full throttle.
Wait, Kolar wasn't going for the kill either, but neither was Vos, though.
Even if we account for the fact that Sidious wasn't putting in as much effort, the fact remains that Kolar and Tinn both died before they could even swing their blades. To them he was practically invisible. And yet Savage is not only able to see Sidious move, but actually intercept his attack.
That's considerably superior to the B-Teams effort, as is landing an actual blow, and I think it makes up for the difference in intent. Nor would Sidious have to tone down his speed to not kill Savage, just not exploit opening when they present themselves.
And irrespective of what your opinions of Dave may be, his interpretation is going to be more valid than yours, and it is intepretable. Its obvious that Sidious wasn't trying as hard, but its interpretable as to whether he still surpassed the B-Team regardless.
It's not exactly difficult to believe either, considering Savage has defeated two Jedi Council members already.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66Sure but he still pushes him back. I suppose its not that relevant considering we are discussing speed, but its impressive nonetheless.
The reason they even saberlocked was because Sidious, again, wasn't fighting with the same demeanor as he was against B-Team: going straight for the kill (with Windu being alongside them, I don't blame him).
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Even if we account for the fact that Sidious wasn't putting in as much effort, the fact remains that Kolar and Tinn both died before they could even swing their blades. To them he was practically invisible. And yet Savage is not only able to see Sidious move, but actually intercept his attack.
Palpatine was mostly defending. Especially in the first scan you provided; they came flying at him and he caught their attacks simultaneously, whereas Palpatine went flying at the B-team so fast that not even Windu was able to gain any advantage. In fact, he was pressed back right after his companions fell.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
That's considerably superior to the B-Teams effort, as is landing an actual blow, and I think it makes up for the difference in intent. Nor would Sidious have to tone down his speed to not kill Savage, just not exploit opening when they present themselves.
How can we conclude Savage is superior if Palpatine treated both fights differently? I think Windu's handling of Sidious's speed is sufficient enough to conclude Sidious was fighting at a far faster (far more aggressive) pace, considering Sidious was distracted by far greater numbers, and it didn't give Windu any advantage to tag Sidious, as opposed to being forced on the fleeting end. Maul and Savage were hardly forced on the defensive.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
And irrespective of what your opinions of Dave may be, his interpretation is going to be more valid than yours, and it is intepretable. Its obvious that Sidious wasn't trying as hard, but its interpretable as to whether he still surpassed the B-Team regardless.
Well Lucas's answer as to why the B-team were taken out so easily: only Yoda and Mace could compete. Considering the question was in the context on how they were taken out (Sidious lightsaber), this is solid proof that Obi Wan doesn't qualify as competition in that area, and would be downed just as fast. If we assume the bros were as good as Sidious allowed them to be, this would indicate solid saber superiority over Kenobi, which we seen first hand that Kenobi can hold his own against either on his best day.
If Filoni didn't give much thought before making the comment (and he really didn't), I have no reason to take his off hand remark seriously, especially since he had no involvement. Even in his own show, he has depicted Fisto as being on par with Kenobi.
I mean, Kenobi could barely stand up long enough when facing a serious Dooku, despite Anakin as back up ("The Lost One"😉, and I doubt you'd agree Dooku is faster than Sidious (Dooku really was outpacing Kenobi far more than Sidious was either of the bros).
Originally posted by Beniboybling
It's not exactly difficult to believe either, considering Savage has defeated two Jedi Council members already.Sure but he still pushes him back. I suppose its not that relevant considering we are discussing speed, but its impressive nonetheless.
Yeah, Savage has a solid strength advantage over majority of the council members. That's practically what gives him the edge.
Originally posted by SiniousYou said it could go both ways... but adamantly argued in favour of Malgus winning throughout the thread. I'm thinking the "either way" part was a failsafe for if (or rather, when) the Malgus arguments fell through the floor and Savage was declared the logical winner. Now, I can understand, as a SWTORian, that this can be awfully upsetting, especially considering Savage is just a big dumb meanie, but the reality is that he is better than this version of Malgus and you'll just need to try and accept that. So hopefully you take my advice and can learn to cope with the upcoming grief. Take care Sinuses.
LOL I from the beginning said, I believe it could go both ways when S66 posted. I agree with most of the stuff he said as well and stated that a few times. So stop embarrassing yourself with your fan rage.
Originally posted by ILS
Man, Neph and Sinious got their shit pushed in so hard in this thread that it devolved into a Beni vs S66 debate because they just couldn't handle it.I guess that concludes it. Savage is better than Hope!Malgus. The SWTORians must be breathing so heavily right now.
S66 never replied to my final post that I saw.
Also U MAD?
Originally posted by NephthysI think this is where we disagree. 🙂
warranting reply.
I don't know if I'm being trolled or courted.Maybe you just place too much importance on yourself? If I'm a troll you'd do well not to feed me by replying to me, otherwise you're trolling yourself and promoting negative forum behaviour.