Human Torch Vs JLA

Is Johnny just not that good/powerful/effective a character?
Was thinking of the Nova Blast thread, and some other things i read online today.
Seems he's really not that good. At anything.
So, can Johnny get a majority in no prep no BFR fights against any of the DCnu JLA?

Superman
Batman
Wonder Woman
GL Hal
Barry Flash
Cyborg
Aquaman

It's not that he's 'not that powerful', he is. It's just that he's outclassed a lot of the times by the villains the FF face (which usually need Reed to "chef up" something to beat them).

He's easily the second most powerful member of the FF and extremely versatile. He's a fast flier, can control any source of flame (either snuffing it out or amping it or using it to make shapes like decoys of himself to confuse the enemy), he can fire powerful blasts of plasma, his nova blast is no joke, he can draw heat out of his opponents or the air (he used this technique to beat Graviton).

As to the thread :
He loses to -
Superman
Wonder Woman
GL Hal

He can pull majority wins against -
Cyborg
Aquaman
Batman

I don't know how he'd fare vs Flash. I know Flash can literally run circles around him but what could Flash do if Torch stays airborne and starts draining heat from the environment, or sets it all afire, or goes nova?

Originally posted by zopzop

I don't know how he'd fare vs Flash. I know Flash can literally run circles around him but what could Flash do if Torch stays airborne and starts draining heat from the environment, or sets it all afire, or goes nova?

Flash would punch him upside the head 😮‍💨

Does Flash usually use that ability and even if he did how would he withstand a plasma burst or Human Torch could rap him in a fire tornado while also burning the oxygen causing him to suffocate.

Originally posted by golem370
Does Flash usually use that ability and even if he did how would he withstand a plasma burst or Human Torch could rap him in a fire tornado while also burning the oxygen causing him to suffocate.

By having reflexes waaaaaay faster than Torch, I'd imagine. Before he even thinks about what he should/could do, he'd have been punched. It would be like asking how a hypersonic bullet would be able to withstand all the things you just named - it doesn't have to. Torch has fast reactions, sure. Flash fast? I doubt it.

Also, depending on the writer, he does not need to breathe. Speedforce, remember?

Originally posted by zopzop
It's not that he's 'not that powerful', he is. It's just that he's outclassed a lot of the times by the villains the FF face (which usually need Reed to "chef up" something to beat them).

He's easily the second most powerful member of the FF and extremely versatile. He's a fast flier, can control any source of flame (either snuffing it out or amping it or using it to make shapes like decoys of himself to confuse the enemy), he can fire powerful blasts of plasma, his nova blast is no joke, he can draw heat out of his opponents or the air (he used this technique to beat Graviton).

As to the thread :
He loses to -
Superman
Wonder Woman
GL Hal

He can pull majority wins against -
Cyborg
Aquaman
Batman

I don't know how he'd fare vs Flash. I know Flash can literally run circles around him but what could Flash do if Torch stays airborne and starts draining heat from the environment, or sets it all afire, or goes nova?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Flash would punch him upside the head 😮‍💨

Without knowing the context of the story, i can only agree with you.
Bart shouldnt be having that problem, normally.

Doom considers Johnny the least effective of F4. And he knows his enemies well.

Honestly Flash is moot. There is at least one member of the JLA that Johnny can absolutely do nothing to. It's irrelevant what would happen to other members.

Though it needs to be said Flash would KO Johnny before he even reacts.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Doom considers Johnny the least effective of F4. And he knows his enemies well.

In terms of raw power, Johnny is second only to Sue on the FF and he's easily one of the most powerful mid metas in Marvel.

Human Torch is pretty powerful within his own tier. As with anyone else, he looks weaker when you place him against people above that level.

Honest question.
What IS his tier, then? Who from DC is in it?

Originally posted by zopzop
Doom is full of shit.

In terms of raw power, Johnny is second only to Sue on the FF and he's easily one of the most powerful mid metas in Marvel.

He's right, when you think about it.

Johnny is not only a hothead - he's one of those dumb, pretty boys that joke all the time and treat everything as a game. Like Iceman, young Jason Todd or Spiderman sometimes.

Richard has the brains. Sue has the raw power and versatility. Ben, on his best day, is not *that* far from some older versions of the Hulk.

Johnny is irresponsible, easy to manipulate, never thinks about what he's doing, doesn't learn from his mistakes, doesn't listen to orders... Doom is right to mock him.

Originally posted by riv6672
Honest question.
What IS his tier, then? Who from DC is in it?

Cyborg or Aquaman, maybe. And that's being generous as hell.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Richard has the brains. Sue has the raw power and versatility. Ben, on his best day, is not *that* far from some older versions of the Hulk.

Johnny is irresponsible, easy to manipulate, never thinks about what he's doing, doesn't learn from his mistakes, doesn't listen to orders... Doom is right to mock him.

Cyborg or Aquaman, maybe. And that's being generous as hell.

I don't understand how he, the HT, is rated so low on this forum all of a sudden.

Originally posted by zopzop
It's not that he's 'not that powerful', he is. It's just that he's outclassed a lot of the times by the villains the FF face (which usually need Reed to "chef up" something to beat them).

He's easily the second most powerful member of the FF and extremely versatile. He's a fast flier, can control any source of flame (either snuffing it out or amping it or using it to make shapes like decoys of himself to confuse the enemy), he can fire powerful blasts of plasma, his nova blast is no joke, he can draw heat out of his opponents or the air (he used this technique to beat Graviton).

As to the thread :
He loses to -
Superman
Wonder Woman
GL Hal

He can pull majority wins against -
Cyborg
Aquaman
Batman

I don't know how he'd fare vs Flash. I know Flash can literally run circles around him but what could Flash do if Torch stays airborne and starts draining heat from the environment, or sets it all afire, or goes nova?

Second most powerful? Beating aquaman? Seeing alotta typos

I'm still iffy on Johnny's tier, thanks any way.

Originally posted by riv6672
I'm still iffy on Johnny's tier, thanks any way.

At best mid meta

Originally posted by Sin I AM
At best mid meta

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Second most powerful? Beating aquaman? Seeing alotta typos

Originally posted by zopzop

In terms of a straight up fight, power for power, Johnny would demolish Reed and Ben. Sue eclipses him but then again Sue eclipses a lot of high metas.

IMHO, Johnny is more powerful than either of those two. His nova blast alone has more raw power than Cy or AM can reproduce. Then you have his heat manipulation powers which are awesome. He can either ignite the environment around him into an inferno OR he can DRAIN heat from it (this is how he beat Gravition, a legit team buster) :

I don't understand how he, the HT, is rated so low on this forum all of a sudden. [/B]

Originally posted by zopzop
He can for sure take AM. AM has shown great heat resistance vs things like lava and such, but Johnny's flame is a LOT hotter than lava. Ironically, he doesn't even have to beat him using fire. He can just siphon the heat from him and freeze him solid.