US Government Type

Seems this keeps coming up again and again.

This should clear the air.

http://country-facts.findthedata.com/q/1/14298/What-type-of-government-does-United-States-have

The reason it is a federal republic is the following:

Federal republic - a state in which the powers of the central government are restricted and in which the component parts (states, colonies, or provinces) retain a degree of self-government; ultimate sovereign power rests with the voters who chose their governmental representatives.

Democracy is defined as a form of government in which the supreme power is retained by the people, but which is usually exercised indirectly through a system of representation and delegated authority periodically renewed.

So in the end we have a Federal Republic that elects its leaders through a democratic process.

Source's: http://www.indexmundi.com/united_states/government_type.html

The term Federal exists from the Federal Republic.

The government was not labeled or set up as "Democratic Republic"

Glad we can put this to bed.

It doesn't matter what it was labelled at at foundation- that's an absurd measure to work from (the world is littered with nations that claim to be in name what they are not). What matters is what definition it matches. As you say, democracy covers all countries where people power is channelled through elected representatives- which matches the US entirely.

'Democracy' is a large umbrella term of which 'Republc' is a sub-type, generally used these days to refer to representative democracies without a monarch.

So, as a lot of people have tried to make clear, the US is both a democracy AND a republic. 'Republic' is the type of democracy it is. If you use a democratic process for power, you come under the heading of 'democracy'. That's how people use the word.

What democracy does NOT have to mean, as some people seem obsessed with, is direct rule by the people i.e. majority rule- such a fringe and tiny idea as to be effectively irrelevant to the word.

LOL@" it doesn't matter". As usual, you foreigners are showing your ignorance of anything American. It most certainly does matter. Your not American so your opinion is moot. I've shown plenty of proof in the other thread that we are a republic but I guess people like u don't even bother to read any of the links I posted. As far as I know, the pledge of allegiance hasn't been changed recently nor has the Constitution or Declaration of Independence been changed to include the word "democracy" in either document so yeah, sorry but you're wrong. We are a republic.

YouTube video

Originally posted by Star428
LOL@" it doesn't matter". As usual, you foreigners are showing your ignorance of anything American. It most certainly does matter. Your not American so your opinion is moot. I've shown plenty of proof in the other thread that we are a republic but I guess people like u don't even bother to read any of the links I posted. As far as I know, the pledge of allegiance hasn't been changed recently nor has the Constitution or Declaration of Independence been changed to include the word "democracy" in either document so yeah, sorry but you're wrong. We are a republic.

This is nonsensical garbage- and stop saying that non-American voices do not count. You have not shown any proof at all- simply a ludicrous internal bias that prevents you from seeing any other facts except those that conform to your absurdly narrow world-view. All of your 'proof' is rooted in a misconception of the meaning of democracy. I'll go for the OED for this one- the world's foremost authority on historical usage of the English language:

Government by the people; esp. a system of government in which all the people of a state or polity (or, esp. formerly, a subset of them meeting particular conditions) are involved in making decisions about its affairs, typically by voting to elect representatives to a parliament or similar assembly.

Does the term 'by the people' ring any bells?

The amount of things wrong with your posting here defies belief. First of all, your nationalistic-obsessed attempt to shut out non-American opinions. Secondly, your mantra-like droning on about how 'we are a republic', which does not even do the courtesy of reading other people's arguments, when they tell you that democracy and republic are not exclusive, showing you are not interested in joining in any sort of debate, merely ignorant posturing. Thirdly, your obsession with saying the "if the Declaration of Independence doesn't say we are a democracy, then we are not a democracy" line- a statement utterly lacking in context, historical analysis, the sense of what words mean and any comprehension of the power of names and labels that would make this any sort of relevant point to make at all. And finally, the hilarious echo chamber of your argument, which revolves entirely around an inaccurate definition of democracy which is only used by the small subset of people your views tend to represent, which takes 'preaching to the choir' to a whole new level. Democracy does not mean what you think it means. Basing the argument on an erroneous definition- often with the conscious objective of trying to call other people out on it- is in poor taste.

If you attempt to find ways the word 'democracy' is used in the modern day that do not match the US- and generally western- system of government, you will almost completely fail; you might find some vague semblance of direct democracy in Switzerland, but that's about it. In the overwhelming, vast majority use of the word, it means elected representative government.

You are as completely and utterly wrong as you can get, and hanging onto such an ill-formed view with a vice-like grip makes you look foolish. Any nation where people power is channelled through elected representatives is a democracy. The UK, France, Spain, Germany, Sweden, Canada- all democracies. Not a single one exercises democracy in the weirdly pejorative term you want to apply to it. The US joins that list. As the US is a democracy that does not have an elected monarch, it fits the modern day use of 'Republic' as well. Those are the facts. You ignoring them is a conscious decision on your part to act the fool.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
This is nonsensical garbage- and stop saying that non-American voices do not count. You have not shown any proof at all- simply a ludicrous internal bias that prevents you from seeing any other facts except those that conform to your absurdly narrow world-view. All of your 'proof' is rooted in a misconception of the meaning of democracy. I'll go for the OED for this one- the world's foremost authority on historical usage of the English language:

Government by the people; esp. a system of government in which all the people of a state or polity (or, esp. formerly, a subset of them meeting particular conditions) are involved in making decisions about its affairs, typically by voting to elect representatives to a parliament or similar assembly.

Does the term 'by the people' ring any bells?

The amount of things wrong with your posting here defies belief. First of all, your nationalistic-obsessed attempt to shut out non-American opinions. Secondly, your mantra-like droning on about how 'we are a republic', which does not even do the courtesy of reading other people's arguments, when they tell you that democracy and republic are not exclusive, showing you are not interested in joining in any sort of debate, merely ignorant posturing. Thirdly, your obsession with saying the "if the Declaration of Independence doesn't say we are a democracy, then we are not a democracy" line- a statement utterly lacking in context, historical analysis, the sense of what words mean and any comprehension of the power of names and labels that would make this any sort of relevant point to make at all. And finally, the hilarious echo chamber of your argument, which revolves entirely around an inaccurate definition of democracy which is only used by the small subset of people your views tend to represent, which takes 'preaching to the choir' to a whole new level. Democracy does not mean what you think it means. Basing the argument on an erroneous definition- often with the conscious objective of trying to call other people out on it- is in poor taste.

If you attempt to find ways the word 'democracy' is used in the modern day that do not match the US- and generally western- system of government, you will almost completely fail; you might find some vague semblance of direct democracy in Switzerland, but that's about it. In the overwhelming, vast majority use of the word, it means elected representative government.

You are as completely and utterly wrong as you can get, and hanging onto such an ill-formed view with a vice-like grip makes you look foolish. Any nation where people power is channelled through elected representatives is a democracy. The UK, France, Spain, Germany, Sweden, Canada- all democracies. Not a single one exercises democracy in the weirdly pejorative term you want to apply to it. The US joins that list. As the US is a democracy that does not have an elected monarch, it fits the modern day use of 'Republic' as well. Those are the facts. You ignoring them is a conscious decision on your part to act the fool.

It's a Federal Republic and a Democracy. Pretty similar to Germany actually, just with a shittier election process, and no separation of head of state and head of government.

Originally posted by Bardock42
and no separation of head of state and head of government.

In addition to the ton of evidence I posted in the other thread and the two links in my sig here is more:

http://educatorssite.com/?p=411

Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself.- John Adams

Democracy is the road to socialism- Karl Marx

http://www.spirituallysmart.com/Republic%20VS%20Democracy.html

A republic is representative government rule by law (the Constitution)... A democracy is direct government ruled by the majority (mob rule)...

Article IV Section 4, of the Constitution "guarantees to every state in this union a republican form of government." No mention of word "democracy".

The reason this is important is that the difference between a democracy and a republic is the difference between collectivism and individualism

I can understand foreigners mistakenly believing that we're a democracy but any American who thinks it should be ashamed of themselves.

And again, the pledge of allegiance makes no mention of the word "democracy" but only "republic".

Neither the US founding father, the federalist papers, nor the pledge of allegiance nor Karl Marx, have any influence on how words are used today. And the United States fits the definition of democracy that is commonly used and is, therefore, a democracy.

Even if the constitution would say that the United States is not a democracy, but rather a giant green ball of chewing gum, it wouldn't change the fact that the Unite States of America are a democracy under the current understanding of the term.

Oh, just to drive the point home, here are several agencies of your country defining democracy, calling the United States a democracy, and endorsing democracy:

http://iipdigital.usembassy.gov/st/english/publication/2008/06/20080623194736eaifas0.658703.html#axzz3ayJtmb6I

http://www.state.gov/j/drl/democ/

http://www.gpo.gov/libraries/core_docs.htm

I don't understand what Star thinks a democracy is?

Is he thinking of direct democracy? Of which there is like one or two in the world?

Why does he think that republic and democracy are mutually exclusive?

How do elections work in his mind?

Originally posted by krisblaze
I don't understand what Star thinks a democracy is?

Is he thinking of direct democracy? Of which there is like one or two in the world?

Why does he think that republic and democracy are mutually exclusive?

How do elections work in his mind?

Originally posted by dadudemon
The United States of America is a Constitutional Democratic Federal Republic.

http://www.usconstitution.net/constfaq_q76.html

So is the thread done, now? That's about as specific as we can get about the government type.

Originally posted by Bardock42
It's a Federal Republic and a Democracy. Pretty similar to Germany actually, just with a shittier election process, and no separation of head of state and head of government.

Yep

We are supposed to be a democracy. If you asked the president if we are a democratic society he would say "yes". You can certainly argue if the country behaves that way, but the government at least considers itself democratic.

Originally posted by krisblaze
I don't understand what Star thinks a democracy is?

Is he thinking of direct democracy? Of which there is like one or two in the world?

Why does he think that republic and democracy are mutually exclusive?

How do elections work in his mind?

He's mistaking democracy for ochlocracy. He is, as usual, gravely mistaken.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
The real question is what his endgame is. If the United States is a "Republic" rather than a "Democracy," what difference does it make? What's the implication he's trying to demonstrate? It seems like for Star this has just become some kind of obsession and he's compelled to "correct" others for pedantry's sake.

I suspect it's some kind of a roundabout way of discrediting the Democratic Party, while at the same time propping up the Republicans.

Originally posted by krisblaze
I don't understand what Star thinks a democracy is?

Is he thinking of direct democracy? Of which there is like one or two in the world?
?

This is pretty much it- every source he posts is suffering from the same irrelevant fallacy. It really is one of the most feeble displays I've seen.

Look at the first link he posted above- pretty much every single thing it says about democracy is simply and demonstrably untrue.

As for his endgame- there isn't one. Like I said, this is a giant echo chamber. People like this think they are proving a point but their terms of reference means they are only speaking to themselves. There's nothing to be won or lost in the debate because there's absolutely no engagement with any sort of rational discourse. The only result is that the speaker looks silly.

Star428- advice here for sensible rational discourse. Your links are terrible. There;s no point just finding people that match your own beliefs and quoting them- that does not magically enhance your argument. Your links have to be from a source that adds weight. I quoted from a dictionary whose entire job is to research historical and current usage- the largest effort in that direction in the world. Bardock quoted from your own government self-defining as democracy. These sources have weight. You keep quoting ranting, partisan sites that do not in turn source their basis and then you seem confused and angry when they don't convince anyone, but if you took time to think about that it should come as no surprise, because they are utterly unconvincing.

The other thing you have to try and bear in mind as any sense at all of context. John Adams was talking about direct democracy- that is not synonymous with the word 'democracy' itself, it is merely a type that does not apply to the way the word is used, particularly today. So, for the last time:

Countries where the public elects people to represent them in government are democracies. Your contention that 'democracy' means majority rule is wrong. Please reference the fuller definition I gave above.

To all the people who are claiming that we are both a democracy and a republic, you're wrong too. Just because we use a democratic process to elect our officials doesn't mean that our government type is democracy or even a democratic republic as some of u claim. We don't make laws or amend them using a democratic method but a republic one. We have 3 branches of government (checks and balances). They keep each other in check. It's a limited government ruled by the Constitution. In a republic, the Constitution grants inalienable rights to every individual that can never be taken away by a simple majority vote of either the general populace (pure democracy) or of any representative body (representative democracy). The fact that the Constitution protects the individual or minorities from the majority is the defining point of what makes this country a republic. Democracy doesn't come into it at all. When laws are finally passed it took a Hell of a lot more than a simple majority vote (which is all that a democracy would require) to pass them.

It was made quite clear that the founding fathers thought democracy was one of the worst government types and that the people of that period would accept no other form of government other than a republic. If the founding fathers knew about all the so-called "americans" of today who claim we're a democracy or even a democratic republic they' be turning over in their graves. Our form of government is a republic and nothing but a republic... Period.