Yoda and the B-Team vs. Sidious and Dooku

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Well it's the official site, so it will be referring to canon only, not Legends.

Also not sure how much he bothered with Lightsaber training after ROTS.

Eh, still though. The one time in canon he had the option between Jar'Kai and Single Bladed when facing 4 opponents he opted for the single bladed. The one time he used 2 blades he was messing around.

No idea. But the official site seems to make out he would have used both against Yoda if he could have.

The question though is if that'd make Sidious more potent.

Yes it does. Because if that's his main form then he would have been as disadvantaged against those 2 as say Ventress was against Opress.

I wouldn't push it. Sidious is a master of all the forms, I doubt dueling with one saber would be a disadvantage to him when facing a singular opponent. And if it is, I doubt it'd be as significant as Ventress' was.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Eh, still though. The one time in canon he had the option between Jar'Kai and Single Bladed when facing 4 opponents he opted for the single bladed. The one time he used 2 blades he was messing around.

I get what you're saying, but it's just speculation. That why did he, and why didn't he.

What The Official site states however is fact. Which is that his preference would have been to battle Yoda with his preferred style - Jar Kai.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
The question though is if that'd make Sidious more potent.

I wouldn't push it. Sidious is a master of all the forms, I doubt dueling with one saber would be a disadvantage to him when facing a singular opponent. And if it is, I doubt it'd be as significant as Ventress' was.

I'm not claiming it would make a world of difference, but surely anyone will perform best with their preferred style.

Mace is also a Master of several forms, but still he'll perform best using Vapaad.

Ventress is also fully capable with a single saber, given she utilized Makashi and has many a time fought off 2 opponents with 1 arm each. But still the presumption is she will fight at her best with her preferred style.

Sith team solidly. If Jedi get Kenobi, it will be harder but still Sith solidly.
Either Sith can quickly take out B-team in seconds and then help take out Yoda.

It doesn't make a world of difference...but it doesn't need to. The point of the second saber on Sidious is letting him fight Yoda and gank a B-Teamer at the same time, since they're practically helpless against Sidious. Yoda's inability to be in two places at once dooms the B Team.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
I get what you're saying, but it's just speculation. That why did he, and why didn't he.

What The Official site states however is fact. Which is that his preference would have been to battle Yoda with his preferred style - Jar Kai.

A fair point, but whether he would do better is also speculation. Darth Maul thought he'd do better against Kenobi with a double bladed saber, but was wrong and the single saber was actually superior for dealing with him.

I'm not claiming it would make a world of difference, but surely anyone will perform best with their preferred style.

Mace is also a Master of several forms, but still he'll perform best using Vapaad.

Ventress is also fully capable with a single saber, given she utilized Makashi and has many a time fought off 2 opponents with 1 arm each. But still the presumption is she will fight at her best with her preferred style.

Comparing Ventress to Sidious is like comparing a 13 year old black belt to an MFA champion. Ventress is good with one form, she isn't used to fighting any other way. A better comparison is comparing Maul to Sidious. And as we saw the loss of one half of his weapon improved his performance, rather than hurt it. Jar'Kai was also Maul's 'preferred style'.

^ You mean Kenobi vs Maul in TPM?

I wouldn't really go by that fight. Rested and Rage enhanced Obi-Wan got a clean shot on Maul's Saber staff (after Maul had been fighting a pretty long while already).

Still an advantage of Jar Kai is you can easily switch to a single saber if dual sabers isn't doing the job.

Not comparing Ventress to Sidious, just using the principle of one's preferred method of fighting. I also brought up Mace Windu who has also mastered most forms, but will clearly fight better using Vapaad.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
^ You mean Kenobi vs Maul in TPM?

I wouldn't really go by that fight. Rested and Rage enhanced Obi-Wan got a clean shot on Maul's Saber staff (after Maul had been fighting a pretty long while already).

They both had plenty of time to rest due to the force field actually. There's no evidence Maul was tired, especially considering he was feeding off Kenobi's rage.

Still an advantage of Jar Kai is you can easily switch to a single saber if dual sabers isn't doing the job.

Just as Maul could have switched to a single blade as he did against Qui-Gon in round 1. But he didn't. His preference is still obviously Jar'Kai and it ended with him on his ass even against a vastly inferior foe.

Not comparing Ventress to Sidious, just using the principle of one's preferred method of fighting. I also brought up Mace Windu who has also mastered most forms, but will clearly fight better using Vapaad.

And I'd argue that's a borderline red herring considering Mace and Ventress are speciality fighters honed in a single form, whereas Sidious is not. Mace for example utilizes Vaapad to utilize his inner darkness. Ventress just isn't experienced in anything except Jar'Kai Makashi. Jar'Kai doesn't have some inherent advantage to Sidious when facing a single opponent.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
They both had plenty of time to rest due to the force field actually. There's no evidence Maul was tired, especially considering he was feeding off Kenobi's rage.

Just as Maul could have switched to a single blade as he did against Qui-Gon in round 1. But he didn't. His preference is still obviously Jar'Kai and it ended with him on his ass even against a vastly inferior foe.

Come on dude. Stop with this Kenobi put Maul on his ass for a second must mean Maul isn't as good with his preferred weapon.

After all he did take on both Jedi and then defeat the superior one via a double blade (his weapon of choice).

(And btw I never said Maul was tired, I said he'd already been fighting a long while. Surely you must see there's a difference between going 10 rounds and going 5 rounds. Tired or not, the guy going 10 rounds is less likely to be as energetic in the final round, and more likely to crop up at some point.)

Originally posted by Lord Stark
And I'd argue that's a borderline red herring considering Mace and Ventress are speciality fighters honed in a single form, whereas Sidious is not. Mace for example utilizes Vaapad to utilize his inner darkness. Ventress just isn't experienced in anything except Jar'Kai Makashi. Jar'Kai doesn't have some inherent advantage to Sidious when facing a single opponent.

Mace mastered most forms to create Vapaad. But I'll concede that's more about forms, and less about the weapon used.

As for Ventress though- Makashi is by it's nature a fencing form and any Jedi/Dark Jedi worth their salt must be competent at using a single blade. More so with one trained in Makashi by Count Dooku himself.

Jeez I'm not talking about some huge difference here. I'm just saying the Official Site confirms Dual Blades are Sidious's chosen weapons, and not single bladed combat like you initially presumed in this thread. And in fact those are the weapons he would have chosen to use against Yoda had he had the choice. That's the official site saying that, not me.

Any effect that would have on his combat prowess however would likely be minimal, but the assumption would be if those are his chosen weapons (and how he trained Darth Maul to fight), then those would be the weapons he performs best with.

If nothing else, he could drop his weapon (like he did with both fights in ROTS) but still have another on him. Not unlike Maul getting his weapon chopped by Kenobi, but still having half of it left to carry on fighting.

Yoda is not an idiot, just as he stated to Kenobi anyone short of himself or Windu can't fight Sidious. That being the case he would be forced to engage Sidious single-handedly and divide the fight.

He would simply have to trust in the abilities of his fellow Jedi High Councillors to deal with Dooku, which I absolutely believe they can do. They were brought together to defeat Sith Lords of Dooku's ability and are themselves incredible swordmasters, as Shaak Ti says not even Anakin would really be much difference compared to them.

Let's not forget that AOTC Kenobi was admittedly inferior to AOTC Fisto, they both would have gotten better over time, though I don't doubt Kenobi closed the gap. It is made specifically clear that these three were equals to each other and I don't see Dooku pulling out Sidious tier speed at any point.