Originally posted by Darkstorm ZeroI made myself familiar with that episode right after Into Darkness came out.
First, you will need to watch all the materials for Old Khan, such as the Original Series Episode "Space Seed."Once you accomplish this task, you will understand.
I understand Khan was utterly awful in hand to hand combat. Should I post the clip ? NuKhan would beat Old Khan, Old Kirk, and NuKirk by himself with ease.
Originally posted by quanchi112
I made myself familiar with that episode right after Into Darkness came out.I understand Khan was utterly awful in hand to hand combat. Should I post the clip ? NuKhan would beat Old Khan, Old Kirk, and NuKirk by himself with ease.
Lol, you clearly have not seen it, nor WOK.
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Lol, you clearly have not seen it, nor WOK.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=B_c1Odol9xw
No skill whatsoever. Both Kirk and Khan look like fools. Do not compare them to the NuKhan version who'd wipe them away like the shitstain you get when you come into contact with women.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Watch how awful he is for yourself. Your ignorance offends me.https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=B_c1Odol9xw
No skill whatsoever. Both Kirk and Khan look like fools. Do not compare them to the NuKhan version who'd wipe them away like the shitstain you get when you come into contact with women.
You purposefully avoid the larger context. Watch the episode you slagger. When I said watch the episode, I didn't say go youtube clip hunting. That is the white noise entry level debating tactic, along with wiki crawling.
Originally posted by Darkstorm ZeroI am not posting the entire episode so you can see it. I was referring to combat. We see him in combat with Kirk. I don't go by just statements I go by feats or evidence. He's awful and so is Kirk in this laughable throw down. When I watched this episode in misery I laughed at how pathetic Trek was pre Abrams. It's awful.
You purposefully avoid the larger context. Watch the episode you slagger. When I said watch the episode, I didn't say go youtube clip hunting. That is the white noise entry level debating tactic, along with wiki crawling.
NuTrek is BY FAR more impressive combat wise with the he same characters we can compare to the previous versions at this point.
Originally posted by quanchi112
I am not posting the entire episode so you can see it. I was referring to combat. We see him in combat with Kirk. I don't go by just statements I go by feats or evidence. He's awful and so is Kirk in this laughable throw down. When I watched this episode in misery I laughed at how pathetic Trek was pre Abrams. It's awful.NuTrek is BY FAR more impressive combat wise with the he same characters we can compare to the previous versions at this point.
Hahahahaa, I already own the entire DVD set, so I don't care what you want to post.
I personally find TOS dated and not too good, but for it's time, it was revolutionary. Reboot Trek is merely another pea in the sci fi pod, it is bland, and unoriginal. It literally did nothing new. But this debate is not about the various opinions of the show and the movies.
The entire premise was not about combat capability, but experience. I am not surprised by you losing focus on the point to have a snort fest in Benedict's crack.
Originally posted by Darkstorm ZeroI do not need the wheel to be reinvented I highly value entertainment. The NuTrek films are fanatastic. I find the characters much more interesting and fun. I also find the old films boring and stale. I have to force myself to make it through an old Trek film but can watch the Nu ones over and over.
Hahahahaa, I already own the entire DVD set, so I don't care what you want to post.I personally find TOS dated and not too good, but for it's time, it was revolutionary. Reboot Trek is merely another pea in the sci fi pod, it is bland, and unoriginal. It literally did nothing new. But this debate is not about the various opinions of the show and the movies.
The entire premise was not about combat capability, but experience. I am not surprised by you losing focus on the point to have a snort fest in Benedict's crack.
Spock also said,"He's intelligent but not experienced. His pattern indicates 2 dimensional thinking."
That's in wok. He also took Kirk's phaser and instead of using it to his advantage broke it before losing a one on one fight showing himself to be quite inexperienced as well as moronic.
I always back my opinion and can out debate you in my sleep. 💃
Originally posted by quanchi112
Spock also said,[B]"He's intelligent but not experienced. His pattern indicates 2 dimensional thinking."That's in wok. He also took Kirk's phaser and instead of using it to his advantage broke it before losing a one on one fight showing himself to be quite inexperienced as well as moronic. [B]
Which is regarding Space Combat inferring ships, not HTH, which is the original point. NuKhan had time to study ship design specs and development. Old Khan did not, so of course he has the advantage on the bridge of a ship.
Because Khan had all the advantages. You'll notice that the fight is personal between Kirk and Khan. Khan wanted Kirk to suffer. That's a false dilemma fallacy.
Originally posted by Darkstorm ZeroI just posted a fight which shows he's inexperienced in hand to hand combat. NuKhan also had time to train in general whereas Old Khan did not hence his embarrassing display against Kirk. Kirk beat him and in the end Khan suffered more. He was always in the original timeline an idiot and someone Kirk often made a fool of. In the second timeline Kirk was in awe of him combat wise. Just stop. Your ignorance offends me.
Which is regarding Space Combat inferring ships, not HTH, which is the original point. NuKhan had time to study ship design specs and development. Old Khan did not, so of course he has the advantage on the bridge of a ship.Because Khan had all the advantages. You'll notice that the fight is personal between Kirk and Khan. Khan wanted Kirk to suffer. That's a false dilemma fallacy.
Originally posted by quanchi112
I just posted a fight which shows he's inexperienced in hand to hand combat. NuKhan also had time to train in general whereas Old Khan did not hence his embarrassing display against Kirk. Kirk beat him and in the end Khan suffered more. He was always in the original timeline an idiot and someone Kirk often made a fool of. In the second timeline Kirk was in awe of him combat wise. Just stop. Your ignorance offends me.
Not according to Spock Prime. And that's checkmate. Of all the threats the Original Crew faced, Spock, the ever logical Vulcan, considered Old Khan to be the #1 threat. And this is well post the 5 year mission, hell even post Nemesis, DS9 and Voyager.
You are out of excuses.
Originally posted by Darkstorm ZeroYes, he was a great threat but that doesn't make him any more experienced. Brilliance and intelligence are not the same thing. Khan was brilliant but was inexperienced unlike NuKhan who had both in spades. Are you done being flat out wrong for the day ?
Not according to Spock Prime. And that's checkmate. Of all the threats the Original Crew faced, Spock, the ever logical Vulcan, considered Old Khan to be the #1 threat. And this is well post the 5 year mission, hell even post Nemesis, DS9 and Voyager.You are out of excuses.
my original scenario involved both khan's being unfrozen at the same time/age. it was admittedly a bait thread aimed at quan, given it's naked paradox to canon...but if we are straight up comparing WoC's khan to 'NuKhan', it's fair to say that these are two different people.
in wrath of khan, khan was not only old but spent decades on a hell-planet going more insane, while 'nukhan' was young and freshly unfozen. pitting someone in their prime against their 60 year old self, and only allowing for physical feats, is the most naked spite topic i could imagine.
@quan:
the opposite of this would be christian bale and ben affleck as batman. they are (thankfully) not of the same film canon, so you could reasonably have a 'bat-bale vs bat-ben' thread. you can't do that with the khans though. they are the same guy.
Originally posted by Bashar TegIf they awoke at the same time and have no separate experiences then they are the same character thus the point of the thread is pointless.
my original scenario involved both khan's being unfrozen at the same time/age. it was admittedly a bait thread aimed at quan, given it's naked paradox to canon...but if we are straight up comparing WoC's khan to 'NuKhan', it's fair to say that these are two different people.in wrath of khan, khan was not only old but spent decades on a hell-planet going more insane, while 'nukhan' was young and freshly unfozen. pitting someone in their prime against their 60 year old self, and only allowing for physical feats, is the most naked spite topic i could imagine.
@quan:
the opposite of this would be christian bale and ben affleck as batman. they are (thankfully) not of the same film canon, so you could reasonably have a 'bat-bale vs bat-ben' thread. you can't do that with the khans though. they are the same guy.
What makes them different is their differing experiences post wake up from the other one. Old Khan was always blaming Kirk and seething with a Nero like hatred of Kirk. It clouded his judgment and he lacked the training NuKhan had running around under the guise of John Harrison for Admiral Marcus. NuKhan also showed resourcefulness and adaptability to the situation he was in to get back at Marcus. Old Khan seemed completely obsessed shadowing rational thought and judgment when it came to dealing with Kirk.
They have the same origin but significant events ala post wake up is vastly different to diverge into two separate Khans. For me this thread was about comparing the two from their separate timelines.
Take Michael Jordan for instance. Let's see one Jordan is cut from the team and uses it as his motivation to become better while an alternate reality Jordan decides to pursues baseball. At age 32 based off experience and training one is the greatest bball player in the world whereas the other might be some minor league baseball player. They aren't capable of the same things due to differing experiences.
Make sense ?
lacked the training NuKhan had running around under the guise of John Harrison for Admiral Marcus
Khan was unfrozen and forced (under threat of crew lives) by Admiral Marcus to design weapons after being shown 23rd Century tech, he was caught trying to smuggle away his frozen crew at one point and had to then flee alone.
What "training" that's relevant here do you think Khan happened to go under, considering he was awake for around a year and spent a considerable amount of time designing.
Originally posted by RobtardHe was used for his savagery. His training and hand to hand fighting ability was shown to be far greater than the Khan who fought Kirk.
"lacked the training NuKhan had running around under the guise of John Harrison for Admiral Marcus"Khan was forced by Admiral Marcus to design weapons after being shown 23rd Century tech, he was caught trying to smuggle away his frozen crew and had to flew alone.
What "training" that's relevant here do you think Khan happened to go under that is relevant here?
He was obviously portrayed as a super soldier. I guess you aren't familiar with his duties on top of the scene you're familiar with watching.
Would you like me to educate you ?
im glad you finally got the joke.
as for #23: in a 1v1, old jordan would spend the entire time getting dunked on by nu-jordan. however basketball is a contest which relies mostly on physical ability whereas combat in star trek mostly has a tactical naval combat theme, centered around a captain on a bridge giving orders more typically than flying roundhouse kicks...and iirc old-khan nearly stomped kirk at his own game.
anyway, if you're talking about pure h2h, of course the younger would beat the older. it's a silly spite topic though, pitting old dude against his younger self. what's the point of it?