Originally posted by carver9The issue is not of who tells you who's wrong. The issue is of you being wrong. It doesn't matter if you outdebated me so bad I was crying behind the screen, at the end of the day you are still wrong.
😂 😂I said I was wrong and I/carver9 caught myself.
Superboy death leaned more on the suicide/sacrifice imo. It wasn't Prime power that killed him.
Grundy sucks. He did work Hal, broke his arm I might add but they were still up and running.
Sodom didn't know how to use said power either and he was shocked 'during the fight' at some of the things he was doing. He was not familiar at all with his power and he was still able to hold his own against Prime. Hell, before getting knocked into the led building, he had the advantage.
Superman having him in the hold was still part of the beginning of the fight. Let's not pretend they had a full comic of their combat. Superman had Prime in a hold he was unable to break.
Of course Prime won the fight. Lol...that's not what we are talking about here.
Alright, but he also got KO'ed before that. Here's WG actually dragging his carcass away
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Prime/Infinite%20Crisis%2004%2015.jpg.html
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Prime/Infinite%20Crisis%2004%2016.jpg.html
So you're wrong on Superboy.
The same Grundy tanked a Mother Box exploding and only got mad about it.
And Hal's arm was broken because that's all Prime chose to do.
Alright, Sodomy had the advantage, etc. Let's go with that sure. Now, let's see Prime knock out the last Green Lantern Yat with centuries of experience, as well as two Mon Els and a shitload of other quite powerful beings:
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Prime/Final%20Crisis-%20Legion%20of%20Three%20Worlds%20004-019.jpg.html
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Prime/Final%20Crisis-%20Legion%20of%20Three%20Worlds%20004-020.jpg.html
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Prime/Final%20Crisis-%20Legion%20of%20Three%20Worlds%20004-021.jpg.html
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Prime/Final%20Crisis-%20Legion%20of%20Three%20Worlds%20004-022.jpg.html
So, we move on Carver. You can hold your interpretation above others, but you can't hold it above that.
Full fight:
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Prime/Final%20Crisis-%20Legion%20of%20Three%20Worlds%20002-025.jpg.html
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Prime/Final%20Crisis-%20Legion%20of%20Three%20Worlds%20002-028.jpg.html
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Prime/Final%20Crisis-%20Legion%20of%20Three%20Worlds%20002-029.jpg.html
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Prime/Final%20Crisis-%20Legion%20of%20Three%20Worlds%20003-005.jpg.html
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Prime/Final%20Crisis-%20Legion%20of%20Three%20Worlds%20003-006.jpg.html
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Prime/Final%20Crisis-%20Legion%20of%20Three%20Worlds%20003-007.jpg.html
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Prime/Final%20Crisis-%20Legion%20of%20Three%20Worlds%20003-008.jpg.html
Let's check out some other things though. Overpower Andromeda, Superman, and Mon El:
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Prime/Final%20Crisis-%20Legion%20of%20Three%20Worlds%20003-021.jpg.html
Smashing through all three belts that the Fatal Five couldn't:
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Prime/Final%20Crisis-%20Legion%20of%20Three%20Worlds%20003-023.jpg.html
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Prime/Final%20Crisis-%20Legion%20of%20Three%20Worlds%20003-024.jpg.html
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Prime/Final%20Crisis-%20Legion%20of%20Three%20Worlds%20003-025.jpg.html
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Prime/Final%20Crisis-%20Legion%20of%20Three%20Worlds%20003-026.jpg.html
Overpowering pretty much every hero there is. And Wonder Woman
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Prime/totscsp_030.jpg.html
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Prime/totscsp_031.jpg.html
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Prime/totscsp_032.jpg.html
Oh but what's this? Knocking out the legendary Wonder Woman? No ****ing way!
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Prime/totscsp_020.jpg.html
And this is admittedly an assumption, but considering MM doesn't appear again in the 10 or so pages and this battle happens right where he fought Prime, and this is like MM's best feat...
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Prime/Infinite%20Crisis%2006%2021.jpg.html
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Prime/Infinite%20Crisis%2006%2022.jpg.html
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Prime/Infinite%20Crisis%2006%2023.jpg.html
However, we've already seen him KO MM:
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Prime/Infinite%20Crisis%2003%2028-29.jpg.html
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Prime/Infinite%20Crisis%2003%2030.jpg.html
As for why that took so long, Photobucket is being really slow and I'm downloading a bunch of shit. Plus it kept saving the Tales of scans in my Onedrive for whatever reason. I'm sure you can relate.
But let me ask you a question carver:
Do I need to pull out a gay black example to show why Prime has better feats? Because I can make up one here if you'd like.
Originally posted by carver9
Both have their lows but I have as of yet to see Prime drop a Herald, a physical beast, like Maestro has done. Not once, unless I'm missing something. I'm talking about people like Black Adam, Hunter, Superman, Wonder Woman, etc... Maestro have fts like that. Well, at least to the point that he treats top tiers like fodder.
Originally posted by carver9So...
Every, and when I say every I mean every, top tier that has faced Prime...I'm talking about your bread and butter top tier, they are still standing. This goes from Superboy, to Martian Manhunter, all the way to Black Adam.
We've checked off Manhunter, Superboy and Wonder Woman from this list. We can't use Superman because being implied to be KO'ed is not shown, alright. He does however cheap shot Kal L out here:
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Prime/Infinite%20Crisis%2007%2009.jpg.html
Not that you'll count it I'm sure, but if you did that would only leave Black Adam. And if failing to KO Black Adam in one backhand puts him at an inadequate level then where does that leave us?
Is every other top tier he's KO'ed invalid because Black Adam wasn't able to be checked off the Carver hitlist? What about KO'ing 2, actually 3 Daxamites at the same time? One with the Ion Power? Is this not counted now?
Do we put all of Prime's showing below KO'ing Merged Hulk because of this, and why? Can you explain why this should hold more water Carver? Can you explain why Maestro's feats carve up Prime's after this? If you can, I would love to hear it dawgy. Especially considering you've shifted so much focus away from everything Maestro, and instead choose to try and downplay Prime.
Nice scans Bran...too bad you're going off topic. Like I've said, Prime has done well against teams...that's is not my argument here. I specifically said he has not dropped one 'in a one on one fight' that I'm aware off. Key word, dropped.
You brought up Grundy knowing his power level isn't consistent. I wouldn't consider him a useful source for your argument at all.
So Superboy was koed there? Come on Bran. The guy is smiling on the next panel before getting pulled away. I'll give you the Yat and Monel showings; even though it happened off panel. Whatever.
MM and Prime first showing? Come on Bran, that was a sneak attack and you know it was. The second encounter...yet again, no evidence to support he was koed. Doesn't matter though since you found the counter to my argument with Monel and Ion.
I never said that Prime didn't have better showings, that's why I gave him the edge here but Maestro handles Heralds (in single fights) better than Prime. Some of the stuff that gave Prime fits wouldn't have happened against Maestro. The guy punch too hard.
Originally posted by carver9
Nice scans Bran...too bad you're going off topic. Like I've said, Prime has done well against teams...that's is not my argument here. I specifically said he has not dropped one 'in a one on one fight' that I'm aware off. Key word, dropped.You brought up Grundy knowing his power level isn't consistent. I wouldn't consider him a useful source for your argument at all.
So Superboy was koed there? Come on Bran. The guy is smiling on the next panel before getting pulled away. I'll give you the Yat and Monel showings; even though it happened off panel. Whatever.
MM and Prime first showing? Come on Bran, that was a sneak attack and you know it was. The second encounter...yet again, no evidence to support he was koed. Doesn't matter though since you found the counter to my argument with Monel and Ion.
I never said that Prime didn't have better showings, that's why I gave him the edge here but Maestro handles Heralds (in single fights) better than Prime. Some of the stuff that gave Prime fits wouldn't have happened against Maestro. The guy punch too hard.
What other heralds has Maestro beaten down?
Originally posted by carver9So your entire point to diminish Prime's feats are that he didn't KO them one on one?
Nice scans Bran...too bad you're going off topic. Like I've said, Prime has done well against teams...that's is not my argument here. I specifically said he has not dropped one 'in a one on one fight' that I'm aware off. Key word, dropped.You brought up Grundy knowing his power level isn't consistent. I wouldn't consider him a useful source for your argument at all.
So Superboy was koed there? Come on Bran. The guy is smiling on the next panel before getting pulled away. I'll give you the Yat and Monel showings; even though it happened off panel. Whatever.
MM and Prime first showing? Come on Bran, that was a sneak attack and you know it was. The second encounter...yet again, no evidence to support he was koed. Doesn't matter though since you found the counter to my argument with Monel and Ion.
I never said that Prime didn't have better showings, that's why I gave him the edge here but Maestro handles Heralds (in single fights) better than Prime. Some of the stuff that gave Prime fits wouldn't have happened against Maestro. The guy punch too hard.
What the ****ing desperation mode?
I'm not even sure how to adequately explain how ****ing stupid that is.
"Well you see, Prime KO'ing three Superman level characters at the same time isn't actually as impressive as KO'ing one character in a one on one fight. Doesn't count."
The reason Prime is knocking people out in team format is because one ****ing hero isn't enough. Like sweet **** Carver, use your God damned head.
Post scans of Solomon Grundy dying in a weak attack like you're implying.
Alright, except Superboy went out cold there. Are you going to argue that one more punch wasn't thrown or something even if he didn't? He was clearly done. But it's a good thing he was shown out cold though.
http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc260/Superman-Prime_Respect/RealVSClone7.jpg
As for MM, how sneaky walking straight up to him.
http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc260/Superman-Prime_Respect/scan0022.jpg
But alright, I'll be there next time you use a character not appearing until another comic when he was right there, as evidence that someone got KO'ed.
I tried to mold my argument to your specifications, but your point is really stupid. Like lost for words stupid.
Also, you keep alluding to other fights where Maestro KO's heralds, but...
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
What other heralds has Maestro beaten down?
I also like how you ignored Prime KO'ing your favorite DC character in Wonder Woman. 🙂
Originally posted by DarkSaint85He had time to realize Prime wasn't a friend.
Not to mention - MMH has superspeed reactions. The sneak attack argument only works if you're using characters with relatively no superspeed - like Professor Hulk, as he's saving people.
But we're missing the big picture here. Knocking out two or three Thors is meaningless. Knocking out one Thor however? Woah boy!
Which is why World Breaker Hulk's killing of numerous Mindless Ones isn't impressive in the least if we carve away at it. Bet he probably couldn't even beat one in a one on one fight.
Bringing up KO's in a one on team fight is off topic bullshit. Carver.
Originally posted by carver9Let's take a look at this, and retroactively add your argument in here.
Shrugging off a blast from a Herald/possible trans level being like it was nothing. Same being went insane and became one of the most powerful being in MU. Beat the breaks out of Merged Hulk with a couple of hits. Same Hulk thay Maestro nearly killed in a couple of blows stalemated Thor who was in Warrior Madness (please don't tell me I have to explain this to you). Planetary showings ain't crap. The weakest Hulk, Grey Hulk, crushed an asteroid twice the size of Hulk in one hit. Professor Hulk powered through a blast thay could knock planets out of orbit. Savage Hulk powered through an attack that could knock planets out of orbit. Current Hulk who is slowly turning into Maestro recent fight had him shaking the planet by punching a being in the face. Hell, a calm Hulk fought some amped pigs and was shaking earth. Current Hulk fought another Hulk and was shaking earth. Current Hulk was said as having the strength to juggle suns by the smartest man on the planet. Indestructible Hulk held a sun on his back. Indestructible Hulk punched at someone so hard that time reversed. Indestructible Hulk nearly overpowered a being that was fraying reality and time just by being present in MU. Hulk punching power exceeded that of Excalibur; an abstract weapon. Do I need to continue. Fts like this means nothing. I would give Prime the win here...a majority but it ain't because he moved a freaking planet. That's child's play.
First off, correct me if I'm wrong, but Maestro did not KO Genis, correct? No need, he didn't. Not only that, but Genis was nowhere near his insane levels there.
And he beat the breaks off of Hulk, which we'll get to a little bit of context later, but he did not KO him. Something which you're faulting SBP for.
In fact, outside of Exiles which I could check I guess, Maestro's only KO victory is due to breaking Hulk's neck.
Which Maestro needed a cheap attack to accomplish:
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Hulk%20-%20Future%20Imperfect%20002-011.jpg.html
Hulk got cheapshotted right before his second fight with Maestro with a weapon that could "kill" Maestro. And Maestro didn't even KO him either in that fight:
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Hulk%20-%20Future%20Imperfect%20002-030.jpg.html
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Hulk%20-%20Future%20Imperfect%20002-031.jpg.html
And Maestro dies to a gamma bomb. Something later Hulks can utterly tank. Hulks who you're using in your post to show how much superior Maestro is to them:
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Hulk%20-%20Future%20Imperfect%20002-045.jpg.html
So, even following your logic, Maestro has no KO victories in one on one fights, and no KO victories in team battles. Everyone knows his one KO victory is due to a cheap attack, and thus by Carver law, it doesn't count.
So I ask you Carver, why the need to lowball Prime? Because Maestro has nothing?
Why is Maestro impressive when everything you've used against Prime would indicate Maestro is pathetic?
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
He had time to realize Prime wasn't a friend.But we're missing the big picture here. Knocking out two or three Thors is meaningless. Knocking out one Thor however? Woah boy!
Which is why World Breaker Hulk's killing of numerous Mindless Ones isn't impressive in the least if we carve away at it. Bet he probably couldn't even beat one in a one on one fight.
Bringing up KO's in a one on team fight is off topic bullshit. Carver.
I never said this. I actually agreed with you and said that you provided evidence of Prime knocking out 3 peeps. The rest of your post wasn't necessary because it wasn't based on our discussion.
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Let's take a look at this, and retroactively add your argument in here.First off, correct me if I'm wrong, but Maestro did not KO Genis, correct? No need, he didn't. Not only that, but Genis was nowhere near his insane levels there.
And he beat the breaks off of Hulk, which we'll get to a little bit of context later, but he did not KO him. Something which you're faulting SBP for.
In fact, outside of Exiles which I could check I guess, Maestro's only KO victory is due to breaking Hulk's neck.
Which Maestro needed a cheap attack to accomplish:
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Hulk%20-%20Future%20Imperfect%20002-011.jpg.htmlHulk got cheapshotted right before his second fight with Maestro with a weapon that could "kill" Maestro. And Maestro didn't even KO him either in that fight:
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Hulk%20-%20Future%20Imperfect%20002-030.jpg.html
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Hulk%20-%20Future%20Imperfect%20002-031.jpg.htmlAnd Maestro dies to a gamma bomb. Something later Hulks can utterly tank. Hulks who you're using in your post to show how much superior Maestro is to them:
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Hulk%20-%20Future%20Imperfect%20002-045.jpg.htmlSo, even following your logic, Maestro has no KO victories in one on one fights, and no KO victories in team battles. Everyone knows his one KO victory is due to a cheap attack, and thus by Carver law, it doesn't count.
So I ask you Carver, why the need to lowball Prime? Because Maestro has nothing?
Why is Maestro impressive when everything you've used against Prime would indicate Maestro is pathetic?
Look at my first post on this. The first one. It explains our dispute here.
Originally posted by carver9
Not beat but at least pull some wins. I think it was obvious Maestro was above Herald levels (I'm pretty sure I don't have to bring up the showings indicating this) and the same can be said about Prime. Both have their lows but I have as of yet to see Prime drop a Herald, a physical beast, like Maestro has done. Not once, unless I'm missing something. I'm talking about people like Black Adam, Hunter, Superman, Wonder Woman, etc... Maestro have fts like that. Well, at least to the point that he treats top tiers like fodder.
Here is my post. Maestro dropped Professor Hulk in a couple of hits. Never said ko but PH was struggling to move. His showing against Genis was good as well. Not a ko but it's obvious he was above him and Herald levels. I then state that some of the things that gave Prime a fight wouldn't have happened to Maestro and Superboy is a Prime example of this. Hell, I even gave Prime the majority here.
