Ziost Vitiate vs. the Daughter

Originally posted by SunRazer
No, they're not. The Killiks hypothesized in FotJ that the Ones might have been evolved forms of Celestials, but that's all. Your quote refers to Celestials, which, as I said, does not mean they refer to the Ones. You highlighted "ones" in the text, except the "o" is in lower case - ie. it's just referencing ordinary Celestials, not the Ones.

Of course, Admiral. Anyway, all of these early spacefarers were contacted by the species known to us as the Celestials, or sometimes the Architects. We have neither reliable records nor even legends about how the Celestial dominion came to be, but it is clear that they were beings of astonishing power.

Source: http://www.starwars.com/news/star-wars-the-essential-guide-to-warfare-authors-cut-the-celestials

And what about the Centerpoint Station? Who constructed it and for what purpose?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
So where did The Ones go after leaving Abeloth?

If they were so powerful that they could destroy the galaxy with their powers, why didn't they destroy Abeloth?

It is a possibility.

So the Father is infallible but others are?

So its now "in time." Great.

Now the cat is the bag.

Vitiate would also have harmed the galaxy in time. This is what Darth Marr asserted.

The Ones threatened the galaxy because they fought each other too much. They could harm the galaxy with their eternal struggles of dominance. In time is the key word.

1. Vitiate could have destroyed the galaxy in time correct, when he acquired the power to do so, which he currently does not possess.

2. The Ones already possess the power to destroy the galaxy, it would only be a matter of time before they do so, in as you say, the course of their eternal struggles of dominance. But unlike Vitiate, they already possess that power.

It's the difference between a yet to be realised possibility and an inevitability. Learn it.

This makes no sense. The Ones do not seem to have most profound impact on the Force, nothing indicates this to be the case.

Source: Star Wars Databank

During the Clone Wars, an immense monolith appeared in the Chrelythiumn system, broadcasting an ancient Jedi distress code. Anakin Skywalker, Obi-Wan Kenobi and Ahsoka Tano investigated the kilometers-wide artifact, and were drawn into a paradise realm inhabited by unspeakably powerful Force-wielders. These god-like beings were locked in an eternal struggle for dominance, which made Mortis the fulcrum of the entire galaxy and the Force.

ful•crum (fo͝olˈkrəm, fŭlˈ-)
n. The point or support on which a lever pivots.
n. An anatomical structure that acts as a hinge or a point of support.
n. An agent through which vital powers are exercised.

That is a canon fact, there is no element of hyperbole, it is clear and literal. That means that any acts that occur on Mortis will be reflected in the wider galaxy.

Source: The Ultimate Visual Guide: Updated and Expanded

As the Daughter dies, the Force beings to fall out of balance. Using her last strength, the Daughter serves as a channel for the Force, releasing her ebbing life energies to revive Ahsoka and remove the dark side's stain.

Source: The Father, Altar of Mortis

"As the balance in this world crumbles, so shall war escalate in your galaxy. As my son has descended into the dark side, so have the Sith gained strength."

I don't get that interpretation.

The Force is everywhere yes, it is in all living things as living Force energy and in all inanimate matter, space and time in the form of cosmic Force energy, forming a collective energy field. This has been affirmed by multiple sources, of which I have quoted and referenced my blog.

As pointed out to you earlier, the Force is a cosmic energy field which spans the entire Universe. This energy field have been ripped apart around Nathema.

You are confused and you are confusing others about this matter.

Deactivating a lightsaber is a different feat from touching and consuming its energy.

Vitiate is on a whole new level of power in comparison to Exar Kun. I would like to see if Wall of Light can stop him. Till then, this is speculation.

There is also the Force light ability to consider, a blast of light side energy that can harm discoporate entities and even contain or eradicate dark side nexuses, another ability that should be effective against Vitiate.

An assumption.

And given your unable to fault my logic, I accept your concession.

Anyway, how about you like to tell us how Vitiate plans to beat the Daughter?

I am not interested in anything that could undermine the precious superiority of Vitiate.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Because they put him in charge of keeping track of continuity...

Q: Are The Old Republic expansions canon?

A: No — BioWare "has created their own universe that is so fantastic," we’re not going to change it, says Hidalgo.

In this alternate universe, Vitiate is the most powerful Force-user. Is this so difficult to understand?

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Not really. Abeloth was only the reason they withdrew from the Maw. Abeloth was trapped in the Maw. They did not need to withdraw from the entire galaxy because of Abeloth. They withdrew from the Maw because of Abeloth, and then they withdrew from the galaxy to avoid wrecking the universe.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Based on her holding her own against Sidious, which is subsequently the reason I disagree with the assertion after your question.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Correction, Abeloth has more power than Luke ever had, including Luke in a state of oneness, and Luke wielding his own power and Leia's power when they bested DE Sidious.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
So are you disregarding Tahiri's statements about Abeloth and Sidious, both of whom she is clearly aware of, yet you are also considering Marr's statement about Vitiate being the most powerful being in the Galaxy to mean Vitiate>The Ones, even though Marr doesn't know jack shit about the Ones?

Did Luke Skywalker assert that Abeloth was more powerful then Darth Sidious?

NOTE: Don't consider my questions as an attempt to compare Abeloth with Darth Sidious. I am simply pointing out to you that you don't blindly trust characters, you focus on their experiences.

We all know that Holocaust happened. And yet, their are people in modern times who believe that holocaust didn't happen. BELIEF is the key word.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
It means the Ones are essentially evolved Celestials.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
You were quoting Darth Plagueis, which states in literally the following paragraph that the Sith had not made it more than half way across the bridge to Celestial power, citing Vitiate as an example.

We can assume that Darth Plagueis had limited knowledge of Vitiate's accomplishments. TOR sources clarified that Vitiate's span of existence exceeded 1300 years and that he returned to haunt the galaxy after his apparent corporeal demise.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
What do you make of this?

Of course, Admiral. Anyway, all of these early spacefarers were contacted by the species known to us as the Celestials, or sometimes the Architects. We have neither reliable records nor even legends about how the Celestial dominion came to be, but it is clear that they were beings of astonishing power.

Source: http://www.starwars.com/news/star-wars-the-essential-guide-to-warfare-authors-cut-the-celestials

And what about the Centerpoint Station? Who constructed it and for what purpose?

What? This has nothing to do with the Ones.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
They are symbolic accolades. Vitiate also have such accolades under his belt.

And that revelation is false. The Force had been out of balance prior to the events of Mortis depicted during the Clone Wars.

[B]Yoda: Blind we are, of creation of this clone army we could not see.

Mace Windu: I think it is time we inform the senate that our ability to use the force has diminished.

Yoda: Only a Dark Lord of the Sith knows of our weakness. If informed the senate is, multiply our adversaries will.

Taken from Star Wars: Attack of the Clones [/B]

No, they're not. Being the personification of the light/dark sides might be hyperbole because it's been used before, but literally stating something as the incarnation of the light side/dark side isn't. You can't just say it's metaphorical or hyperbolic because you don't like it.

I know - it was first tipped by Palpatine and Plagueis' rituals. However, the Daughter's death actually plunged the galaxy (further) towards the dark side.

By the way, Vitiate has only been stated as almost-godlike - the Ones have been stated as canonically godlike. 😛

Originally posted by Beniboybling
😐 Because Abeloth is as powerful as they are. You done?

She would be opposed down to the final breath, the last drop of blood, of nearly every Jedi in the galaxy. And in that battle, even so ancient and powerful a being as Abeloth could not stand.

Taken from Star Wars: Fate of the Jedi: Ascension

As I stated earlier, The Ones harming the galaxy is hyperbole. They don't demonstrate powers of such magnitude on-screen.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
So more baseless speculation, gotcha.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
...mmkay. I don't know what your saying here but the point is the Father has the means to acquire the knowledge necessary to make this claim. And nowhere has he demonstrated ignorance of the outside world.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Cute, you think your on to something. Let me stop you before you get a head of yourself and point out a few key differences you appear to be overlooking, your giving that word definition on no basis.

1. Vitiate could have destroyed the galaxy in time correct, when he acquired the power to do so, which he currently does not possess.

2. The Ones already possess the power to destroy the galaxy, it would only be a matter of time before they do so, in as you say, the course of their eternal struggles of dominance. But unlike Vitiate, they already possess that power.

It's the difference between a yet to be realised possibility and an inevitability. Learn it.

Vitiate have devised a ritual with which he can harm the entire galaxy and his power is ever-increasing. He would eventually reach this point of strength, if not stopped on time. Ziost related developments surprised Darth Marr in the sense that he felt that Vitiate would achieve his ultimate goal quicker then he originally anticipated.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Only because your not paying attention, let me remind you:

By virtue of their struggles, Mortis became a fulcrum for the Force itself.

ful•crum (fo͝olˈkrəm, fŭlˈ-)
n. The point or support on which a lever pivots.
n. An anatomical structure that acts as a hinge or a point of support.
n. An agent through which vital powers are exercised.

That is a canon fact, there is no element of hyperbole, it is clear and literal. That means that any acts that occur on Mortis will be reflected in the wider galaxy.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
The fact that the Force was already becoming imbalanced before the events of Mortis is irrelevant, and is in fact reflected by the Son's growing power. But if the Son hadn't been destroyed, the galaxy would have fallen into further imbalance. That is indisputably clear.

Meanwhile, the Father attempts to stave off a disastrous showdown between his children and maintain the Force's increasingly precarious balance on the planet.

Source: http://www.starwars.com/tv-shows/clone-wars/altar-of-mortis

The Daughter's death created imbalance in the Mortis. The Father also stated this after her death. When the Dark Side became stronger on the Mortis, the Son was able to foresee Anakin Skywalker's future with great clarity.

The implications of the imbalance inside the Mortis on the galaxy at large are symbolic. The imbalance in the Force outside the realm of Mortis existed prior to similar development inside the Mortis.

Clear now?

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Well your going to have to, because your intepretation is incorrect, and not supported by the evidence your bringing up. Nowhere in either of those quotes is the word "cosmic" even mentioned.

inconceivably vast.

Your point is moot.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
The Force is everywhere yes, it is in all living things as living Force energy and in all inanimate matter, space and time in the form of cosmic Force energy, forming a collective energy field. This has been affirmed by multiple sources, of which I have quoted and referenced my blog.

Midi-chlorians represent the living aspect of the Force because they exist within the biota and bind the biota to the cosmic Force energy.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
And yet the planet remained intact, and time and space still flowed. The Force governs and these aspects, so why do they still function?

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Actually a lot of people have found by blog informative and enlightening thanks, your inability to comprehend it is not my problem.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Correct, so give me an example of Vitiate or anyone else doing this:

Now give me an example the Son doing this:

You don't think that the Son would be able to perform the door-shattering feat, should he try? Now apply the same logic to his feat.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Only in the respect that he is significantly stronger, he is still a discoporate entity made from dark side energy. We have no reason to believe he is of different properties. Thus all that is required is more power, the Daughter > thousands of Jedi. She is the most powerful light sider in existence.

There is also the Force light ability to consider, a blast of light side energy that can harm discoporate entities and even contain or eradicate dark side nexuses, another ability that should be effective against Vitiate.

It remains to be seen how Vitiate will be stopped. It is early to give a verdict in this regard. What if Vitiate it is not possible to stop Vitiate with a Wall of Light?

Dark Council has assembled a contingent of powerful Sith seers to get a fix on the Emperor’s presence. When he makes his move, it is believed he will not distinguish between former friend or foe, as they will all eventually become his food and none will remain.

Taken from Star Wars: The Old Republic (The Emperor's Return)

Originally posted by Beniboybling
It's called a logical inference. The Daughter is a manifestation of the light itself, and her powers are beyond any mortal being, she therefore must be capable of any mortal power of the light to gain these accolades, else mortals would exist who are superior to her.

And given your unable to fault my logic, I accept your concession.

Anyway, how about you like to tell us how Vitiate plans to beat the Daughter?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
As I stated earlier, The Ones harming the galaxy is hyperbole. They don't demonstrate powers of such magnitude on-screen.

You cannot imagine what pain it is to have such love for your children… and realize that they could tear the very fabric of our universe.

Long ago, the Ones withdrew from the galaxy to avoid ruining it with their Force powers.

How can these statements be interpreted as hyperbole, semantically speaking? They cannot, they can only be taken literally, therefore there must be reasons why Abeloth did not "ruin" the galaxy with her powers, most likely she was simply stopped before she could do so. Bearing in mind that TCW is of a higher canon, so it overrides the events of FOTJ anyway.

There is no possibility of a contradiction I'm afraid, and Abeloth doesn't take precedence.

The Father can learn about outside developments from visions. This is true for the Son as well. They don't have the means to communicate with the outsiders aside from luring them in with distress signals. If I am missing something, kindly provide details with evidence.

Vitiate have devised a ritual with which he can harm the entire galaxy and his power is ever-increasing. He would eventually reach this point of strength, if not stopped on time. Ziost related developments surprised Darth Marr in the sense that he felt that Vitiate would achieve his ultimate goal quicker then he originally anticipated.

The current incarnation of Vitiate doesn't possess the power to ruin the galaxy yet, as the Ones do. Simple.

Their struggles spanned centuries. It isn't surprising that such lengthy developments eventually transformed Mortis into a so-called fulcrum of the Force as a side-effect. But this assumption is open to scrutiny. The balance of the Force, outside the realm of Mortis, could shift due to developments other then in Mortis. This is apparent from the developments in PT era and actions of Darths Plagueis and Sidious if Legends continuity is considered.

Clear now?

The Force is omnipresent but it does not creates matter. It just exists everywhere as an energy field. It binds all life by virtue of midi-chlorians.

Where is this stated that the Force creates and shapes the matter?

Source: The Book of Sith, Science of Creating Life

The Force is found throughout the universe, not only in living things.

...

The aperion includes and unites all matter, giving it shape and cohesion. Aspects of the aperion include gravity and electromagnetism - though the term encompasses everything in both space and time.

You must feel the Force around you; here, between you, me, the tree, the rock, everywhere, yes. Even between the land and the ship.

Every authority on the Force states that the Force is in everything, not just living things, and binds not just life, but the entire galaxy together.

This is an example of shatterpoint and Force-users are known to develop shatterpoint abilities.

Now give me an example the Son doing this:

You don't think that the Son would be able to perform the door-shattering feat, should he try? Now apply the same logic to his feat.

And so we are brought full circle. If he did possess this power, why didn't used it here, to prevent the HoT from raising a lightsaber against him, and eventually strike him down with it?

Here is another example:

If Vitiate possessed the power of the Ones. Why didn't he disable their lightsabers before unleashing his attack? It is obvious lightsabers are a more than effective tool against Vitiate, but against the Ones they are next to useless.

This is ability is unparalleled in mythos and there is a reason for it, the writers are attempting to convey that the Ones possess unparalleled power.

Darth Marr assessed that Vitiate cannot be restrained or destroyed with conventional means. The term conventional means can be assumed to cover lightsabers and Force powers.

It remains to be seen how Vitiate will be stopped. It is early to give a verdict in this regard. What if Vitiate it is not possible to stop Vitiate with a Wall of Light?

Dark Council has assembled a contingent of powerful Sith seers to get a fix on the Emperor’s presence. When he makes his move, it is believed he will not distinguish between former friend or foe, as they will all eventually become his food and none will remain.

Taken from [B]Star Wars: The Old Republic (The Emperor's Return)[/b]

Vitiate's powers are also beyond a mortal being.

Lol that's not the point, calm down you don't need to get up in arms every time you see a potential threat to Vitiate's imagined superiority.

The point is the Daughter is canonically superior to any known mortal, and many mortals have mastered the wall of light power.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Why not?

Abeloth, a being of similar nature, wasn't immune to Force powers. As an example, Force Drain powers proved to be useful in weakening and eventually neutralizing her avatar.

He may be powerful? He is stated to have immeasurable power and he have one of the best feats among all.

I am not convinced that the Son is stronger then Vitiate. I have seen nothing from the Son to imply as such. Statements or not, the Son is untested in external environments and his on-screen depictions don't match his hype.

I'm not saying she isn't immune to force attacks but only the son and the father have been able to successfully push her, and anakin the chosen one. Also didn't Abeloth take on Luke and Krayt and almost a dozen of SITH and Jedi at one time, during that reflecting off the effects of the control Webb. She was also able to use TK to blast all of the Jedi and SITH back. So her immunity pretty high.

How come whenever sow one says something about Vitate why do you make a big deal out of it. I said he may be powerful. I'm saying he is powerful but, I admit he's powerful why are you getting so mad about me giving him a compliment?

Ok you have seen enough to know he's a powerful force weilders, also, you have enough information on the son to know he is more powerful. Based on what your saying, you are t convinced the son is more powerful than Dooku. When he stomps Dooku and probably sodious to. He is the embodiment of the dark, the most powerful dark sider of all time. He has out lived vitiate and helped take down abeloth. So what do you need to know a fact.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Which you've failed to prove in terms of semantics.

You cannot imagine what pain it is to have such love for your children… and realize that they could tear the very fabric of our universe.

Long ago, the Ones withdrew from the galaxy to avoid ruining it with their Force powers.

How can these statements be interpreted as hyperbole, semantically speaking? They cannot, they can only be taken literally, therefore there must be reasons why Abeloth did not "ruin" the galaxy with her powers, most likely she was simply stopped before she could do so. Bearing in mind that TCW is of a higher canon, so it overrides the events of FOTJ anyway.

There is no possibility of a contradiction I'm afraid, and Abeloth doesn't take precedence.

If Canon continuity is considered, The Ones are possibly unparalleled.

If Legends continuity is considered, we have Abeloth, Bedlam Spirits, Vitiate, Dark Empire era resurrected Palpatine and perhaps more entities as potential rivals.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
And how does this prove the Father couldn't know of Vitiate? He claims he does, and has the ability to do so. So he does.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
So? How does that change the fact he hasn't achieved that power yet?

The current incarnation of Vitiate doesn't possess the power to ruin the galaxy yet, as the Ones do. Simple.

The Ones are indeed stated to possess power of such magnitude but showings of Abeloth contradict this revelation. Simple.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Great. Does change the fact they can influence the Force in more profound ways than Vitiate.

Vitiate is implied to have disturbed the balance of the Force and have even harmed the Force around some planets. Collectively, these developments represent most profound impact on the Force from a single Force-user.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
No, because it is expliclty stated that actions on Mortis would impact the outside world, and the Daughter's death would give the Sith strength, and you've failed to explain how that can be interpreted symbolically, its a literal fact.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
I've provided my source, now you provide your source that states the Force does not create cohesive matter. In so far you've only provided quotes that state the Force is everywhere and in all things. Let me add to them:

You must feel the Force around you; here, between you, me, the tree, the rock, everywhere, yes. Even between the land and the ship.

Every authority on the Force states that the Force is in everything, not just living things, and binds not just life, but the entire galaxy together.

Darth Plagueis seems to classify the Force into 3 different aspects:

1. Anima
2. Pneuma
3. Aperion

I am referring to the aspect of the Force that is commonly referred in the sources. Whatever it is, Vitiate harmed it around Nathema and Ziost.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
First off that's not shatterpoint, that's breaking a door. Secondly the Son has never been in a situation where he would have to break a door, so you cannot claim he can't do this, but Vitiate has certainly been in positions were the ability to deactivate a lightsaber would prove vital, yet failed to do so.

And so we are brought full circle. If he did possess this power, why didn't used it here, to prevent the HoT from raising a lightsaber against him, and eventually strike him down with it?

Here is another example:

If Vitiate possessed the power of the Ones. Why didn't he disable their lightsabers before unleashing his attack? It is obvious lightsabers are a more than effective tool against Vitiate, but against the Ones they are next to useless.

This is ability is unparalleled in mythos and there is a reason for it, the writers are attempting to convey that the Ones possess unparalleled power.

I don't see how these demonstrations are the only indicators of power. We see Satele Shan blocking a lightsaber with bare hands but we haven't seen Vitiate performing this feat. However, Vitiate is recognized as the stronger Force-user.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
And yet he is assembling a contingent of Force users to find a way to beat him. It is obvious that it doesn't cover all Force powers, and the Wall of Light technique is not conventional, its a rare ability and the most destructive weapon in a Jedi's arsenal. We have no reason to believe it won't work against Vitiate.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
😂

Lol that's not the point, calm down you don't need to get up in arms every time you see a potential threat to Vitiate's imagined superiority.

The point is the Daughter is canonically superior to any known mortal, and many mortals have mastered the wall of light power.

Pretty sure the Daughter stomps.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Either you consider Legends continuity or Canon continuity for arguments. Picking and choosing from the revelations from both continuities is bad practice. The bottom statement that you cited is part of Legends continuity, from a Legends sourcebook.

If Canon continuity is considered, The Ones are possibly unparalleled.

If Legends continuity is considered, we have Abeloth, Bedlam Spirits, Vitiate, Dark Empire era resurrected Palpatine and perhaps more entities as potential rivals.

But anyway do you plan to explain to be how those referenced statements can be interpreted as semantically hyperbolic or is this a concession?

The Father claimed that he knows about Vitiate? When?

Speculating? No. I'm validating the Father's claim. The Father claims that he and his children can wield the Force like no other, not nobody he's ever met, no other. This suggests awareness of Force users in outside galaxy and all and any powerful inhabitants in it. The Father has the means to acquire this knowledge, we therefore have no reason to doubt his claim.

Such power progression is within his reach, so? He is already a threat to the entire galaxy.

The Ones are indeed stated to possess power of such magnitude but showings of Abeloth contradict this revelation. Simple.

I regard this as a story element.

And are you going to explain how its semantically hyperbolic or not?

Vitiate is implied to have disturbed the balance of the Force and have even harmed the Force around some planets. Collectively, these developments represent most profound impact on the Force from a single Force-user.

Their are multiple interpretations of the Force in-universe.

Darth Plagueis seems to classify the Force into 3 different aspects:

1. Anima
2. Pneuma
3. Aperion

I am referring to the aspect of the Force that is commonly referred in the sources. Whatever it is, Vitiate harmed it around Nathema and Ziost.

I did not assert that the Son could not break a door. I stated that just because we don't see him breaking one, doesn't means he cannot.

I don't see how these demonstrations are the only indicators of power. We see Satele Shan blocking a lightsaber with bare hands but we haven't seen Vitiate performing this feat. However, Vitiate is recognized as the stronger Force-user.

If he did possess this power, why didn't used it here, to prevent the HoT from raising a lightsaber against him, and eventually strike him down with it?

If Vitiate possessed the power of the Ones. Why didn't he disable their lightsabers before unleashing his attack?

Please do your best to rectify that.

You are missing the point. Those contingent of specialized Force-users are likely to perform a ritual or do something unconventional to get a fix on Vitiate's presence. They cannot stop Vitiate using lightsabers and Force powers.

TCW is also a part of Legends, as T, and therefore superior to C, Canon, so it definitely takes precedence.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
We are discussing TCW, a Canon source, so of course Canon is being considered. But on what basis are you saying your interpretation of FOTJ (Legends) takes precedence over TCW (Canon)?

I am considering Legends continuity because Vitiate is part of this continuity and Abeloth serves as a measuring yardstick for The Ones in this continuity. And in this continuity, The Ones are not unparalleled in hype and showings.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
But anyway do you plan to explain to be how those referenced statements can be interpreted as semantically hyperbolic or is this a concession?

Even in the Canon continuity, we don't see beings destroying planets, stars, solar systems and galaxies. If this would have been the case then what is the point of storytelling? Nothing would be able to stop beings so powerful. They would simply crush anything in their path.

I am being fair in my assessment. If The Ones had feats of destroying galaxies then we wouldn't be having this debate and I would have gladly accepted their superiority, but this isn't the case. I am not unrealistic in real life. However, fiction is a different matter and it always fuels debates due to loopholes, inconsistencies and imperfections.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Looks like I'm going to have to quote myself:

Originally posted by Beniboybling
So why are you bringing up powers he hasn't achieved yet?

But if you want to stick to demonstrated actions, then he is powerful enough to consume all life in the galaxy in time. And this is still unprecedented capability and level of power, far greater then that of any mortal.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
And the statements made in regards to the Ones take precedence over your interpretation of Abeloth's powers. Fact > Speculation.

I stick with my interpretations for good reasons.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
😐 What's that supposed to mean, care to elaborate?

No, because it is expliclty stated that actions on Mortis would impact the outside world, and the Daughter's death would give the Sith strength, and you've failed to explain how that can be interpreted symbolically, its a literal fact.

- as a story element.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Story element tbh.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Your referring to the living Force, life. Tearing the very fabric of the universe apart would be an attack on the cosmic/unifying Force. They are different.

The Force is an omnipresent (cosmic) energy field that exists everywhere and binds all life in the Universe. Call it living or whatever, it exists independently of the Midi-chlorians that exist within the biota. I have cited official descriptions of this energy field and it is your responsibility to pay attention to them.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
You didn't answer my questions:

If he did possess this power, why didn't used it here, to prevent the HoT from raising a lightsaber against him, and eventually strike him down with it?

If Vitiate possessed the power of the Ones. Why didn't he disable their lightsabers before unleashing his attack?

Please do your best to rectify that.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
So rituals aren't Force powers then?

Hey guys the Son killed Ahsoka with a touch!

He literally put his fingers on her forehead and she died! The Son slays all.

Originally posted by |King Joker|
Hey guys the Son killed Ahsoka with a touch!

He literally put his fingers on her forehead and she died! The Son slays all.

Originally posted by 2400 Aside
If I recall correctly, some narration either in an episode of TCW or somewhere on the official site notes them as the most powerful Force users ever.

Vitiate is stated to be the most powerful Force-user ever in TOR sources that are treated as alternate universe by Disney.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
And Obi-Wan tolerated a blast of his Force Lightning. Killing Ahsoka like that isn't a big deal, she isn't powerful by Jedi standards.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Considering Vitiate has never killed anyone in such a manner, I'd say its pretty impressive.

The Ones haven't demonstrated comparable potency.

Great. But that doesn't change the fact that Vitiate has never killed a person with such ease.

And considering the Ones possessed destructive power that could ruin the galaxy, it hardly means much.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Great. But that doesn't change the fact that Vitiate has never killed a person with such ease.

This is a feat from a single host. While performing this act, Vitiate is spending energy on possessing countless individuals on a planet.

Killing a Jedi with a touch won't be an issue for Vitiate, I assure you.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
And considering the Ones possessed destructive power that could ruin the galaxy, it hardly means much.