Originally posted by Digi
You're closer than the others to actually aligning with plausible scientific thought. But I've also seen research on quantum uncertainty that casts a pall over this idea. The old line was that observing something caused the waveform to collapse, which added the idea that it required actual human observation in order to collapse. It gave a specialness to human involvement that was unwarranted. In actuality, the physical conditions needed to observe something (light, etc.) collapse quantum superpositions irrespective of the human element.There have also been attempts to locate quantum vibrations in neurons and such, in order to justify the idea that two decisions can exist at once and may theoretically split into multiple universes. While interesting, and requiring further study, the conclusions so far have been underwhelming for its proponents. Basically, nothing concrete has been found that would suggest quantum states in the brain/consciousness/neurons/etc. And if they were, detractors point out that such states likely wouldn't be significant enough to affect our minds at a level which would actually alter our choices. Basically, even the proven presence of quantum vibrations would only be the first step in a long series of steps to prove something resembling free will in a libertarian sense.
Obviously I'm a layman relating these ideas. It's not comprehensive nor, likely, without errors and oversimplifications. Feel free to do your own research, and I hope further research is done on this idea. And as I mentioned, you're a lot closer to a possible justification than any I've seen in this thread so far. But given what we know so far, I find this explanation unlikely, at best. And, given the intrinsic appeal of an idea like libertarian free will, I think it's far more likely that we're trying to fit a square peg into a round hole in order to justify an idea that never made much sense in the first place.
Digi, check this out:
Originally posted by Astner
Yes I do. Let me explain:If Jesus is omnipotent he'd be able to eat a burrito of any temperature. Therefore a burrito of a temperature that Jesus wouldn't be able to eat couldn't logically exist.
So the answer is no; Jesus could not microwave a burrito so hot that he couldn't eat it. This would go against Jesus omnipotence since you can't use logical absurdities to discredit ideas or arguments.
I feel like a can.
Re: If God is omniscient, does free will exist?
Originally posted by Surtur
Simple question, this isn't about whether or not God exists. For the purposes of this thread it will be assumed he does in some form. I've seen a lot of religious people say God is omnipotent and omniscient. These aren't just the "crazy" religious people that do things like take the bible seriously. I also have no problem with this because obviously if he is God he should be omnipotent and omniscient.But it made me think about free will. If God already knows everything that will happen, it means he would of known that even before he created humanity. If we are created with him already knowing everything we will do, do we have actual free will?
Your question cannot be answered as is.
Scriptures say that some things God has preordained to happen. If he has ever interfered with anything in our time line then free will has been altered for all of us.
If the scriptures that say he preordained anything, including the death of Jesus, then none of us have free will.
Any interference or pre-ordained activity has to effect everyone in this time line.
Think of back to the future. The time science in it was fairly accurate as to any change up or down the time line creating a whole new one.
The butterfly effect basically.
Here is an example.
1Peter 1:20 0 He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.
If that quote is true, then the one to kill Jesus has no choice and no free will to do other than kill Jesus.
If God did not preordain or create anything, then I see no reason why he cannot fly up and down the time line and could know everything without affecting our free will.
If he did create or preordain anything then we cannot have free will.
Regards
DL
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
What?
😕
It seems that you're submitting the idea of God to an standard of the meaning of the word omnipotence. You can only proceed in such link if there is an actual equivalence in the myths you're addressing.
To rephrase my question: where does it say on the christian mythology that there are omnipotent beings?
Originally posted by Greatest I am
If any one event is pre-determined then everyone's free will has been compromised.
The easiest way of exemplifying this is to compare predetermined events to postdetermined events, where a postdetermined event is an event that has already happened.
Originally posted by Greatest I am
That is the butterfly effect. Have you never watched any time travel programs?
Originally posted by Bentley
It seems that you're submitting the idea of God to an standard of the meaning of the word omnipotence. You can only proceed in such link if there is an actual equivalence in the myths you're addressing.To rephrase my question: where does it say on the christian mythology that there are omnipotent beings?
Just Google it.
Originally posted by Astner
The doctrine of omnipotence isn't a Biblical doctrine, it's from the 2nd century.
http://www.allaboutgod.com/god-is-omnipotent-faq.htm
You could have also Goggled it.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
http://www.allaboutgod.com/god-is-omnipotent-faq.htmYou could have also Goggled it.
Other than that, if you read the verses in that none of them discusses unlimited power or omnipotence as it's conventionally used.
Originally posted by Astner
The Bible never uses the word omnipotence. It uses almighty, but almighty, or shadday in Hebrew, refers to authority and not power in the sense of mind-over-matter.Other than that, if you read the verses in that none of them discusses unlimited power or omnipotence as it's conventionally used.
The original bible didn't use any English words.
I'm glad you don't believe that the god of the bible is omnipotent. This is something we can agree on. But most Christians would disagree with you.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
The original bible didn't use any English words.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I'm glad you don't believe that the god of the bible is omnipotent. This is something we can agree on. But most Christians would disagree with you.
Originally posted by Astner
I know, but what I meant was that none of the English translations uses the word omnipotent; and the Bible doesn't even describe omnipotence as it is thought of today.When did I say that I didn't believe God was omnipotent? I simply pointed out that the doctrine of omnipotence is older than the Bible. The Bible itself doesn't take a stance on the matter, so it's up to interpretation.
Stop slitting hairs.