If God is omniscient, does free will exist?

Originally posted by Bentley
If the concept of omnipotence didn't exist (to the relevant transcriptors) when the Bible was written then you can't just say it was "meant" to be that.

Omnipotence is not just an English word, is a concept with philosophical bagagge that is linked with centuries of argumentation all over the civilized word. You just don't assume things fit that kind of cultural overcomplexification, specially not without backing.

The idea that god is omnipotent is common throughout Christianity, here in the US.

When I say Christian mythology, I am not talking about Christianity of the past. I am talking about all the beliefs taken as a whole. That includes a lot of things that are not in the bible, like the rapture.

The rapture is in First Thessalonians, though. That's NT, as well.

Originally posted by The Lost
The rapture is in First Thessalonians, though. That's NT, as well.

But the word rapture is not in the bible.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
The idea that god is omnipotent is common throughout Christianity, here in the US.

Prayers addressed to God for entirely selfish reasons, even to do harm into others, are common in Christianity. That doesn't mean they are an integral part of the doctrine though.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
When I say Christian mythology, I am not talking about Christianity of the past. I am talking about all the beliefs taken as a whole. That includes a lot of things that are not in the bible, like the rapture.

Ok, that's probably the source of our misunderstanding then. For me the Mythology is the gathering of tales and lore regarding christian figures, none of them as far as I know, ever needed an actual omnipotent in the place of God. As for the cultural image or perception of modern christians, I can understand the common idea of omnipotence linked to the Divine and in that case lot of thought isn't attached to that notion.

Nowadays trying to dismiss christianity by dismissing omnipotence it's an institutional strawman argument. Christianity itself does not need the concept of omnipotence.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
But the word rapture is not in the bible.

Nor the word Trinity. But I guess those terms were later invented to describe Biblical notions as opposed to Omnipotence that works (or fails to work) perfectly beyond the religious horizon.

Originally posted by Bentley
Nor the word Trinity. But I guess those terms were later invented to describe Biblical notions as opposed to Omnipotence that works (or fails to work) perfectly beyond the religious horizon.

So, what is your point now?

Originally posted by Bentley
Prayers addressed to God for entirely selfish reasons, even to do harm into others, are common in Christianity. That doesn't mean they are an integral part of the doctrine though.

Ok, that's probably the source of our misunderstanding then. For me the Mythology is the gathering of tales and lore regarding christian figures, none of them as far as I know, ever needed an actual omnipotent in the place of God. As for the cultural image or perception of modern christians, I can understand the common idea of omnipotence linked to the Divine and in that case lot of thought isn't attached to that notion.

Nowadays trying to dismiss christianity by dismissing omnipotence it's an institutional strawman argument. Christianity itself does not need the concept of omnipotence.

What? The topic is "If God is omniscient, does free will exist?"

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
But the word rapture is not in the bible.

Right, but you said "the rapture", not "the word rapture."

You have to understand why anyone would think you were discussing the concept and not simply the term.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
So, what is your point now?

The same as before, a word is not a concept 😛

Actually just before we were discussing about cultural conceptions, lore and official tradition and I'm sure there is some interesting discussion to be had about that. I'm afraid it might be a bit too "definition based" to be actually fun though (we'd be bickering way too much about simple misunderstandings 😖 ).

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
What? The topic is "If God is omniscient, does free will exist?"

But we were talking about omnipotence, not omniscience. We were off topic all the way 😈

Originally posted by Bentley
But we were talking about omnipotence, not omniscience. We were off topic all the way 😈

Well, I was trying to follow you, but...

Again, we were arguing religion in the religion forum. Technically speaking, you don't need religion at all to fully address the topic of this thread (and there is a philosophy forum right above this one). It's actually painfully annoying to discuss the concept of freewill since the temporal experience assumed for it to work is a full mess.

What I mean is, sorry for derailing the thread :'(

Originally posted by Bentley
Again, we were arguing religion in the religion forum. Technically speaking, you don't need religion at all to fully address the topic of this thread (and there is a philosophy forum right above this one). It's actually painfully annoying to discuss the concept of freewill since the temporal experience assumed for it to work is a full mess.

What I mean is, sorry for derailing the thread :'(

I don't think it was you. I could have picked the wrong word from the spell checker.

Behold, this entire thread in comedic video form:

YouTube video

It even tackles quantum physics. It's remarkably similar to basically every layman's internet discussion of this on the interwebs. Some high-level meta humor going on.

They touch on moral responsibility, which is considered separate from free will by most philosophers. But they likely would have lost their audience if they had gone down that rabbit hole.

Originally posted by Digi
Behold, this entire thread in comedic video form:

YouTube video

It even tackles quantum physics. It's remarkably similar to basically every layman's internet discussion of this on the interwebs. Some high-level meta humor going on.

They touch on moral responsibility, which is considered separate from free will by most philosophers. But they likely would have lost their audience if they had gone down that rabbit hole.

Does it mention Epigenetics?

The way the rabbis explain it to me is yes God is omniscient and therefore knows what we're going to do. However, he still gives us the free will to do it and since we cannot know God on any level, as far as we humanly understand, we have free will.

Originally posted by AndrewBolt
Good lord, you really do make up your own rules..

Jeremiah 29:11 [b]For I know the plans I have for you, declares the Lord

Jeremiah 1:4-5 Now the word of the Lord came to me, saying, “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you

Proverbs 21:1 The king's heart is a stream of water in the hand of the Lord; he turns it wherever he will.

Proverbs 16:33 The lot is cast into the lap, but its every decision is from the Lord.

Jeremiah 29:11 For I know the plans I have for you, declares the Lord

Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand

Proverbs 19:21 Many are the plans in the mind of a man, but it is the purpose of the Lord that will stand.

Job 42:2 I know that you can do all things, and that no purpose of yours can be thwarted.

Proverbs 16:4 The Lord has made everything for its purpose

Colossians 1:16 For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him.

Psalm 138:8 The Lord will fulfill his purpose for me

1 Corinthians 6:19-20 Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own

Romans 11:36 For from him and through him and to him are all things.

Romans 9:20-21 But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use?

etc etc etc etc etc etc etc... [/B]

yet none of those verses contradict my statement, man... i'm not discrediting God but i'm telling what He is according to what was written... there are things God doesn't know, nor even came to His mind:

"And they have built the high place of Topheth, which is in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire; which I did not command, nor did it come into my mind."
Jeremiah 7:31

that's not my rule, andrew...

and that doesn't decrease the power of God in my belief... He is still the Supreme Being i know and worship...

Don't know what God you're talking about but as far as Judaism is concerned, God is all knowing all powerful.

Originally posted by Ionceknewu
Does it mention Epigenetics?

I'm not convinced you aren't a troll yet, so I'm withholding discussing anything with you for the time being. Enjoy the video.

Originally posted by psmith81992
Don't know what God you're talking about but as far as Judaism is concerned, God is all knowing all powerful.

i'm not talking about Judaism, i'm talking about the God in the Bible... 🙂