Blue Marvel & Monica vs......

Started by Stoic4 pages

Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
Well like I just said to you, he wasn't being thrown around as you put it. It was a bit more even than Ikaris being thrown around in my opinion is all that I was saying.

I just disagree that he was thrown around.

Anyone that Rulk breaks even with (aside from a gamma mutate) is in a tier below Adam's though. That was really what I was getting at. Red hulk got the better of that exchange. Anyone can see that. If that were on a point system, Rulk was the dominant fighter by a god margin. Simon William's did far better than Ikaris, which also goes to show that Ikaris probably wouldn't even beat him. That's based solely on their battles with Rulk. Adam seems to be well above all three being mentioned. He isn't going to have much trouble with Ikaris IMO.

Blue Marvel admitted Namor gave him a good fight, someone that was said on panel as being nothing to Ikaris. Also, the lowballing of Red Hulk.

Originally posted by Stoic
Sersi isn't a magical being though, she manipulates molecules to a high degree that makes it seem like she is magical. Am I right? You may be thinking of Circe. Ikaris is a cl 100, but more at the low end, while Adam is a high end cl 100. I really don't think that Ikaris would be up to a slug fest with Adam TBH. We saw how Rulk was throwing him around. Adam is superior to Rulk, if we take Rulk's battle with Simon into consideration. Adam would outright destroy Simon. Adam would beat Quasar pretty quickly as well I think.

Why would Ikaris need to fight BM? Sersi has been shown to be strong enough to two shot KO Immortal Hercules. She stalemated Exodus in a prolonged psiwar. Sersi has protected her teammates while the ENTIRE UNIVERSE blinked out of existence. She's turned people into inert matter to help them survive a GALAXY BUSTING attack. She's easily the most powerful person in the Eternals vs BM/Spectrum fight.

Ikaris was taking on Namor while being blasted by Hammond Torch (look up his respect thread to get an idea of his power level) and he was more than holding his own.

These Eternals are absolutely no joke.

No they aren't, it takes him time, and he would have to wrestle against her own control over the EM spectrum, which is considerable. While, I believe that the bands would win, they aren't as powerful as you may be alluding to. After all, they aren't as powerful as the CCR. Carol isn't holding up Adam for even an instant, which would be nearly a one shot for him to be done with her. Quasar would be next. He has rarely if ever been able to contend with high end brute strength. Adam brings that kind of strength to the table.

Quasar would insta gimp Spectrum. Let's not kid ourselves. The Quantum Bands operate on a higher level than Monica.

He's brought a Watcher to his knees, absorbed power from a nearby star to create a solar flare that dwarf the Stranger's lab world. He's held off PF Rachel. Stalemated the Silver Surfer. Bubbled up Binary. Shielded a group of Mourners from an IG blast from Thanos. Almost instantly absorbed the Living Laser. I could go on but you get the point.

Originally posted by carver9
Blue Marvel admitted Namor gave him a good fight, someone that was said on panel as being nothing to Ikaris. Also, the lowballing of Red Hulk. [/B]

Did you actually see the fight between Namor and Blue marvel? That's like every time Superman says that this guy or the other was the strongest person he ever faced, while going on to beat them handily.

What low balling? Rulk was defeated by Simon with ease. The Red Hulk was consistently being beaten, or made to look far worse than his Loeb era days. So what low balling are you talking about? The only character that the Red Hulk consistently did well against was the Hulk, and that was because Red Hulk had power over gamma mutates.

Originally posted by zopzop

Why would Ikaris need to fight BM? Sersi has been shown to be strong enough to two shot KO Immortal Hercules. She stalemated Exodus in a prolonged psiwar. Sersi has protected her teammates while the ENTIRE UNIVERSE blinked out of existence. She's turned people into inert matter to help them survive a GALAXY BUSTING attack. She's easily the most powerful person in the Eternals vs BM/Spectrum fight.

Ikaris was taking on Namor while being blasted by Hammond Torch (look up his respect thread to get an idea of his power level) and he was more than holding his own.

These Eternals are absolutely no joke.

Quasar would insta gimp Spectrum. Let's not kid ourselves. The Quantum Bands operate on a higher level than Monica.

He's brought a Watcher to his knees, absorbed power from a nearby star to create a solar flare that dwarf the Stranger's lab world. He's held off PF Rachel. Stalemated the Silver Surfer. Bubbled up Binary. Shielded a group of Mourners from an IG blast from Thanos. Almost instantly absorbed the Living Laser. I could go on but you get the point. [/B]

What were the conditions behind Sersi? Don't try deception Zop. That wasn't an average Sersi. Quasar had to wrestle against opponents that were energetic, and in this case Monica actually has power, and control over the EM spectrum, and to a considerable degree. Quasar isn't insta beating her. He wins, but not as quickly as you're saying. He never had that much control, at least not on par with the CCR, which pwned the shit out of him and the Q-bands. They aren't as powerful as you're trying to make it out. Also many of the things that Quasar did may have been extremely high showings for him, but then again Rulk overwhelmed beings far above his station as well. The Surfer is easily drained as well. Just because he can power drain, does not mean that he can't be drained. This has happened on more than one occasion.

Neither Ikaris or Sersi are beating Adam. At least not at the moment. Try again when he actually loses to someone on their level. As of now, Adam's average is extremely high, so anything that you say negatively about him is simply wrong.

Originally posted by carver9
Blue Marvel admitted Namor gave him a good fight, someone that was said on panel as being nothing to Ikaris. Also, the lowballing of Red Hulk.

Where did it state that Namor was nothing compared to Ikaris? It looks like you're going into Carter mode again. You're going to take one showing, and pass it off as the average? The Hulk has had it out with Ikaris, Thor has had it out with Ikaris, and there is no way in the Marvel Universe that Namor is nothing compared to Ikaris. Namor a guy that actually kayoed the Hulk because hit hit him that hard. When did Ikaris ever, KO the Hulk because he hit him that hard? One showing means a majority right? SMH.

Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
None of this shows Ikaris being knocked around by Red Hulk in my opinion at least. In fact it looks even to me. Ikaris didn't even finish the fight because he was busy saving the others from the magma.

http://i.imgur.com/T2DTY81.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/H8CCWkA.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/fTH34HA.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/mh2F8QF.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/NDlcJlB.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/dON7YNp.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/rTTvtY0.jpg

Cool fight. But it looked close to even to me.

Originally posted by byrdgang21
Cool fight. But it looked close to even to me.

How did that look close to even to you? Rulk had him on the ground, and he could have continued pounding on him near the end, but stopped.

Originally posted by Stoic
Where did it state that Namor was nothing compared to Ikaris? It looks like you're going into Carter mode again. You're going to take one showing, and pass it off as the average? The Hulk has had it out with Ikaris, Thor has had it out with Ikaris, and there is no way in the Marvel Universe that Namor is nothing compared to Ikaris. Namor a guy that actually kayoed the Hulk because hit hit him that hard. When did Ikaris ever, KO the Hulk because he hit him that hard? One showing means a majority right? SMH.

If you read the Ikaris respect thread I made you would understand.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f98/t613247.html

It's stated that he's too powerful for anyone in the group and he's still fighting the mind control.

You're making loads of statements about things that have not even happened.

You are quick to chastise Carver yet what he said although phrased differently actually happened. So I wouldn't chide him because you're wrong.

Thor has never fought Ikaris, so again there is no need to chuck out these type of statements when you're wrong.

Originally posted by Stoic
Sersi isn't a magical being though, she manipulates molecules to a high degree that makes it seem like she is magical. Am I right? You may be thinking of Circe. Ikaris is a cl 100, but more at the low end, while Adam is a high end cl 100. I really don't think that Ikaris would be up to a slug fest with Adam TBH. We saw how Rulk was throwing him around. Adam is superior to Rulk, if we take Rulk's battle with Simon into consideration. Adam would outright destroy Simon. Adam would beat Quasar pretty quickly as well I think.

No they aren't, it takes him time, and he would have to wrestle against her own control over the EM spectrum, which is considerable. While, I believe that the bands would win, they aren't as powerful as you may be alluding to. After all, they aren't as powerful as the CCR. Carol isn't holding up Adam for even an instant, which would be nearly a one shot for him to be done with her. Quasar would be next. He has rarely if ever been able to contend with high end brute strength. Adam brings that kind of strength to the table.

you're right about the magic. i was unintentionally equating her transmutation as magic, but you're right, it isn't. still, imo she is the most dangerous on the field. there really isn't any reason at all to assume she simply couldn't transmute adam OR monica. her power is a bit haxx in that sense. she has so many transmutation feats it's ridiculous and many against high powered organics like the avengers. she's even manipulated a nega bomb. and she really doesn't have 'low feats'. the ones zop mentioned were performed pretty easily and really are consistent with her showings. she does have durability issues at times, but also has high level psi powers and illusions.

as for ikaris--he's more than powerful enough to hold his own imo against bm. he wouldn't win in the end but the figths would be long and tough.

as far as the q-bands--quasar is one of the most consistent characters out there. i think that showing against the ccr is....pretty pi$$y tbh. he's easily matched ss in prolonged battle and done well against phoenix. he has some crazy feats. he'd beat spectrum, but i do agree with you--it wouldn't be as easy as zop says imo. especially given the new level of power it seems she had attained.

Originally posted by Stoic
What were the conditions behind Sersi? Don't try deception Zop. That wasn't an average Sersi.

That was Sersi unleashed. No power ups, no nothing. Just her losing her mind and not giving a phuck.

Quasar had to wrestle against opponents that were energetic, and in this case Monica actually has power, and control over the EM spectrum, and to a considerable degree. Quasar isn't insta beating her. He wins, but not as quickly as you're saying. He never had that much control, at least not on par with the CCR, which pwned the shit out of him and the Q-bands. They aren't as powerful as you're trying to make it out. Also many of the things that Quasar did may have been extremely high showings for him, but then again Rulk overwhelmed beings far above his station as well. The Surfer is easily drained as well. Just because he can power drain, does not mean that he can't be drained. This has happened on more than one occasion.

Annihilus in that arc was destroying High Heralds like it was going out of style. How is Quasar losing to him a bad showing?

Rulk had the Loebforce during that BS. He's running joke now.

Quasar faces off against Watchers and High Heralds. Monica fights Metas. Huge difference. Oh and there's also this :
http://pasteboard.co/1932r2DT.jpg
and this (that's Quasar INSTANTLY absorbing power from ALL the Annihilators and throwing up a shield to protect them from a blast) :
http://pasteboard.co/1933Y4kH.jpg
and remember I mentioned this? :
http://pasteboard.co/1939ub3B.jpg

Monica is completely out of her league here.

Neither Ikaris or Sersi are beating Adam. At least not at the moment. Try again when he actually loses to someone on their level. As of now, Adam's average is extremely high, so anything that you say negatively about him is simply wrong.

Sersi would end Adam if she was serious about it. Don't kid yourself.

Originally posted by Stoic
How did that look close to even to you? Rulk had him on the ground, and he could have continued pounding on him near the end, but stopped.

To me it looks like they both were able to get some good shots in. Rulk may have seemed to be in control when the fight ended but IMO that doesn't show Rulk dominating that fight.

Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
You're making loads of statements about things that have not even happened.

You are quick to chastise Carver yet what he said although phrased differently actually happened. So I wouldn't chide him because you're wrong.

Thor has never fought Ikaris, so again there is no need to chuck out these type of statements when you're wrong.

What statement did I make about things that did not happen? I may be unaware of a rise in Ike's power levels as of late, but then again you may be unaware of things that happened in the past.

Thor and Ikaris have fought before, he also fought against the Hulk. So no, I'm not wrong. If Ikaris has recently gotten an upgrade, I was unaware of that even happening. I was talking about the Ikaris that fought Rulk, and his power levels before that fight. Thor also easily showed dominance over Ikaris when they fought.

Originally posted by leonidas
you're right about the magic. i was unintentionally equating her transmutation as magic, but you're right, it isn't. still, imo she is the most dangerous on the field. there really isn't any reason at all to assume she simply couldn't transmute adam OR monica. her power is a bit haxx in that sense. she has so many transmutation feats it's ridiculous and many against high powered organics like the avengers. she's even manipulated a nega bomb. and she really doesn't have 'low feats'. the ones zop mentioned were performed pretty easily and really are consistent with her showings. she does have durability issues at times, but also has high level psi powers and illusions.

as for ikaris--he's more than powerful enough to hold his own imo against bm. he wouldn't win in the end but the figths would be long and tough.

as far as the q-bands--quasar is one of the most consistent characters out there. i think that showing against the ccr is....pretty pi$$y tbh. he's easily matched ss in prolonged battle and done well against phoenix. he has some crazy feats. he'd beat spectrum, but i do agree with you--it wouldn't be as easy as zop says imo. especially given the new level of power it seems she had attained.

I don't think that she could transmute Monica in solid light form. there would be no molecules to manipulate. As for Adam, I'm also not certain that he isn't resistant to molecular manipulations. I wouldn't be at all surprised if he wasn't, when he had the ability to heal Monica in her energy form.

As for Quasar, yes he has some pretty good showings, but again Monica has very strong control over the EM spectrum. Even though it isn't canon to forum matches, Monica was overwhelming a GL by matching the rings output. Quasar would win but he'd have to fight for it. Carol is a non factor. BM would do away with her, and possibly be able to stop Quasar from beating Monica, because i don't see Carol doing well against BM at all. Carol wouldn't so well against either Monica or BM. Quasar isn't beating the both of them alone.

Originally posted by zopzop

That was Sersi unleashed. No power ups, no nothing. Just her losing her mind and not giving a phuck.

[/b]
Annihilus in that arc was destroying High Heralds like it was going out of style. How is Quasar losing to him a bad showing?

Rulk had the Loebforce during that BS. He's running joke now.

Quasar faces off against Watchers and High Heralds. Monica fights Metas. Huge difference. Oh and there's also this :
http://pasteboard.co/1932r2DT.jpg
and this (that's Quasar INSTANTLY absorbing power from ALL the Annihilators and throwing up a shield to protect them from a blast) :
http://pasteboard.co/1933Y4kH.jpg
and remember I mentioned this? :
http://pasteboard.co/1939ub3B.jpg

Monica is completely out of her league here.

Sersi would end Adam if she was serious about it. Don't kid yourself. [/B]

If Rulk is a running joke these days or before he was injected and reduced back down to his human self, what was Ikaris when they fought? Scott put up some scans of their brief scuffle, and at the end Rulk had the advantage. From what I saw, Rulk could have continued pounding on his face, but then stopped. If we compare that showing to what Simon Williams did to Rulk I would say that Simon would beat the crap out of Ikaris at that point in time. If Ikaris has risen in power since then, that's another story, but then again i had no idea that Ikaris had a drastic power spike over the past 2 or 3 years.

Originally posted by Stoic
What statement di i make about things that did not happen? I may be unaware of a rise in Ike's power levels as of late, but then again you may be unaware of things that happened in the past.

Thor and Ikaris have fought before, he also fought against the Hulk. So no, I'm not wrong. If Ikaris has recently gotten an upgrade, I was unaware of that even happening. I was talking about the Ikaris that fought Rulk, and his power levels before that fight. Thor also easily showed dominance over Ikaris when they fought.

Trouble is you are wrong, he has never fought Thor. If you ventured over to the respect thread you would see that.

If you also bothered to go there you would also see I included the Hulk fight there. So yes you are wrong.

Stop being complacent for the sake of it. Whenever Ikaris saw Thor they have only spoke together. Never fought each other.

I could throw a guess and perhaps say Virako may have fought Thor but I never read up on him.

Here it is again just in case you missed it.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f98/t613247.html

Originally posted by Stoic
Did you actually see the fight between Namor and Blue marvel? That's like every time Superman says that this guy or the other was the strongest person he ever faced, while going on to beat them handily.

What low balling? Rulk was defeated by Simon with ease. The Red Hulk was consistently being beaten, or made to look far worse than his Loeb era days. So what low balling are you talking about? The only character that the Red Hulk consistently did well against was the Hulk, and that was because Red Hulk had power over gamma mutates.

What were the conditions behind Sersi? Don't try deception Zop. That wasn't an average Sersi. Quasar had to wrestle against opponents that were energetic, and in this case Monica actually has power, and control over the EM spectrum, and to a considerable degree. Quasar isn't insta beating her. He wins, but not as quickly as you're saying. He never had that much control, at least not on par with the CCR, which pwned the shit out of him and the Q-bands. They aren't as powerful as you're trying to make it out. Also many of the things that Quasar did may have been extremely high showings for him, but then again Rulk overwhelmed beings far above his station as well. The Surfer is easily drained as well. Just because he can power drain, does not mean that he can't be drained. This has happened on more than one occasion.

Neither Ikaris or Sersi are beating Adam. At least not at the moment. Try again when he actually loses to someone on their level. As of now, Adam's average is extremely high, so anything that you say negatively about him is simply wrong.

Did you see the Red Hulk and Thor fight? Was a good one that ended in a stalemate and I'm not talking about their first fight either. Are you suggesting that Simon is more powerful than Thor? Because the Thor and Red Hulk fight lasted some pages. Let me know. By the way, this was Rulk fighting Thor without the power absorption. By the way, who beat up Rulk?

Almost all these fights will be tough and could fall either way.

1. Ikaris & Sersi - Sersi is straight up powerful. She can manipulate energy to some extent as well as matter and it's quite possible she could take either opponent one on one. If all else fails try holding both inside adamantium or create some sort of prism trap to hold or disperse Monica. Ikaris is no joke either lately and would pull his weight. Leaning toward the eternals.

2. Quasar & Captain Marvel (Carol). Quasar could give BM a fight, and I'm pretty certain he can take Monica out of the game quickly. But paired with Captain Marvel I think BM/M have the distinct advantage because Carol will be the weak link. But at some point Carol could absorb energy - if she still has those powers it's more even.

3. Hulk & Red She Hulk. Depends on the version of the Hulk, but I can see some levels of Hulk beating down BM eventually or at least holding out. Neither Hulk has an easy way of taking out Monica, Hulk teams aren't versatile enough (but if it was during the WWH arc somehow a thunderclap would disperse her). Maybe a draw, I don't see the Hulks gaining outright victory because of Monica.

4. Lady Thor & Odinson - I'm not sure that Odinson can give BM a fight when it's basically strength vs comparable strength + flight + energy powers. The way Lady Thor wields her hammer she could probably give BM a fight and maybe do something to Monica's energy form with it. Leaning towards BM/M, but give Odinson a hammer too and I'd give advantage to the Thors.

5. Superman & Wonder Woman - I think this pairing should win a majority, but again Monica might be tricky to take out.

6. Animal Man & Vixen. Unless they've got some higher end abilities I'm not familiar with, like channeling the entire power of the Red, BM/M will win.

@basilisk:
Only version of Animal Man/Vixen that can have a go are pre-DCnU, when he was channeling Sun-Eaters and she was copying powers and skills from anyone and everyone - and stacking them.

Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
Trouble is you are wrong, he has [B]never fought Thor. If you ventured over to the respect thread you would see that.

If you also bothered to go there you would also see I included the Hulk fight there. So yes you are wrong.

Stop being complacent for the sake of it. Whenever Ikaris saw Thor they have only spoke together. Never fought each other.

I could throw a guess and perhaps say Virako may have fought Thor but I never read up on him.

Here it is again just in case you missed it.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f98/t613247.html [/B]

OK. I'm back. I had to run a few errands. You could be right, I really could have swore that Ikaris and Thor had a brief scuffle. Now about your tone, you might want to tone it down because whatever you're saying has nothing to do with Namor being nothing to Ikaris. Was Namor nothing to Thanos? Nothing means ignoring being struck by another character much like WB Hulk no sold and ignored Wendigo, and Bi-Beast. Thanos actually got his mouth busted open, and slightly staggered by Namor.s punch. Would Ikaris be able to reproduce similar results in a battle with Namor? Choose you words wisely.

Originally posted by carver9
Did you see the Red Hulk and Thor fight? Was a good one that ended in a stalemate and I'm not talking about their first fight either. Are you suggesting that Simon is more powerful than Thor? Because the Thor and Red Hulk fight lasted some pages. Let me know. By the way, this was Rulk fighting Thor without the power absorption. By the way, who beat up Rulk?

The Red Hulk Thor fight? Which one? Loeb era Rulk isn't the same as the one that fought Ikaris. Like I mentioned to Scott, in order to be nothing to another character, one would have to be able to no sell a punch from them much like WB Hulk no sold Wendigo, and Bi-Beast. Not even Thanos no sold namor's punch. Namor busted his mouth open. So what are you saying exactly?

Originally posted by basilisk
Almost all these fights will be tough and could fall either way.

1. Ikaris & Sersi - Sersi is straight up powerful. She can manipulate energy to some extent as well as matter and it's quite possible she could take either opponent one on one. If all else fails try holding both inside adamantium or create some sort of prism trap to hold or disperse Monica. Ikaris is no joke either lately and would pull his weight. Leaning toward the eternals.

2. Quasar & Captain Marvel (Carol). Quasar could give BM a fight, and I'm pretty certain he can take Monica out of the game quickly. But paired with Captain Marvel I think BM/M have the distinct advantage because Carol will be the weak link. But at some point Carol could absorb energy - if she still has those powers it's more even.

3. Hulk & Red She Hulk. Depends on the version of the Hulk, but I can see some levels of Hulk beating down BM eventually or at least holding out. Neither Hulk has an easy way of taking out Monica, Hulk teams aren't versatile enough (but if it was during the WWH arc somehow a thunderclap would disperse her). Maybe a draw, I don't see the Hulks gaining outright victory because of Monica.

4. Lady Thor & Odinson - I'm not sure that Odinson can give BM a fight when it's basically strength vs comparable strength + flight + energy powers. The way Lady Thor wields her hammer she could probably give BM a fight and maybe do something to Monica's energy form with it. Leaning towards BM/M, but give Odinson a hammer too and I'd give advantage to the Thors.

5. Superman & Wonder Woman - I think this pairing should win a majority, but again Monica might be tricky to take out.

6. Animal Man & Vixen. Unless they've got some higher end abilities I'm not familiar with, like channeling the entire power of the Red, BM/M will win.

Whate are they doing while Sersi is doing all of this and Ikaris is doing all of that? Should I remind you of which team is actually faster?

Quasar is strong against energetic opponents, but weak against mega bricks. BM would defeat him. carol is a non factor. Quasar isn't beating both of them, and would have to wrestle with Monica. It won't be an insta win.

The rest that you wrote I agree with.

Originally posted by Stoic
OK. I'm back. I had to run a few errands. You could be right, I really could have swore that Ikaris and Thor had a brief scuffle. Now about your tone, you might want to tone it down because whatever you're saying has nothing to do with Namor being nothing to Ikaris. Was Namor nothing to Thanos? Nothing means ignoring being struck by another character much like WB Hulk no sold and ignored Wendigo, and Bi-Beast. Thanos actually got his mouth busted open, and slightly staggered by Namor.s punch. Would Ikaris be able to reproduce similar results in a battle with Namor? Choose you words wisely.

The Red Hulk Thor fight? Which one? Loeb era Rulk isn't the same as the one that fought Ikaris. Like I mentioned to Scott, in order to be nothing to another character, one would have to be able to no sell a punch from them much like WB Hulk no sold Wendigo, and Bi-Beast. Not even Thanos no sold namor's punch. Namor busted his mouth open. So what are you saying exactly?

Whate are they doing while Sersi is doing all of this and Ikaris is doing all of that? Should I remind you of which team is actually faster?

Quasar is strong against energetic opponents, but weak against mega bricks. BM would defeat him. carol is a non factor. Quasar isn't beating both of them, and would have to wrestle with Monica. It won't be an insta win.

The rest that you wrote I agree with.

Trust me I don't believe he did fight Thor. I downloaded every comic Ikaris ever appeared in and he never fought Thor. Spoke to him a few times yeah, but never did they fight.

Again I didn't state anything out of the ordinary. It did have something to say that Namor was Ikaris's better. The respect thread has it there for you to see. I can't really explain it any better.

The battle in question.

Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot

http://i.imgur.com/XeuYfHi.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/bZjyIII.jpg
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http://i.imgur.com/CZQZgvX.jpg

From The All-New Invaders #3 and The All-New Invaders #5[/center] [/B]

You're talking to me about how Carver phrased it not me. I didn't say he was nothing to Namor. I expect Carver meant he was more powerful than Namor (which he is as it is stated) rather than it being like either me or you facing off an ant.