Caedus vs. Vitiate

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Well the Jedi have been going back for 25,000 years and even vitiate is younger than that I believe as he reached around 4,000 years of age and the midiclorians would have been discovered by that time as they say that even master yoda doesn't have a midiclorian count that high meaning that the test have been.

During these ancient times, Force-users discovered other Force-sensitives by using the Force.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Around form centuries by proven fact. So with that Vitiates is possibly recorded. Also I understand you love vitiate but he doesn't hold the top spot.

Here is the hint:

Spoiler:
No

Your speculation is utterly baseless.

B/W I don't love fictional characters. Just because I debate for some, doesn't means that I love them. Stick to arguments at hand.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Anakin had the most raw potential of any living being due to having the highest midiclorian count.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Anakin had the highest midiclorian count.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
That means he had a greater count than both yoda and Sidious both of which most believe to be greater than vitiate. So with that vitiate really while powerful doesn't really entire the contest of highest midiclorian count. Also he became more powerful through rituals, he was never meant to be what he was.

These characters are not even the part of the same continuity.

Your assumption in this regard, just like that of others who harbor same belief, is FANON.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
While both yoda and Sidious were concerned with the power of the individual. As palpatine said lord vader will become more powerful than either of us.

Vitiate's potential have no cap. He grows in power by drawing energy from others or consuming others on consistent basis.

Question: You think Anakin's potential is inferior to that of prime!Vitiate?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
It is unclear that at what point in history midichlorian testing began. However, this testing procedure wasn't used during SWTOR and earlier eras. During these times, Force-users discovered other Force-sensitives by using the Force.

Your speculation have no merit.

With that Anakin was still meant to be the most powerful force weilder of all time as unlike any other character he was made through the the force. No one else so really Anakins potential is nearly limitless or at the very least indeterminate. Also Sidious told yoda vader would become more powerful than either of them both being at that point the most powerful force wielders of all time for their respective sides, with Sidious being the most powerful dark spider and yoda being the most powerful lightsider as of ROTS. So with that Vitiate would be below Anakin in terms of raw power.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Vitiate's potential have no cap. He grows in power by drawing energy from others or consuming others on consistent basis.

Sidious actually did that hen he was on Byss. by drawing energy from all life on the planet.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Question: You think Anakin's potential is inferior to that of prime!Vitiate?

Prime Anakin is considered a mortal?

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
With that Anakin was still meant to be the most powerful force weilder of all time as unlike any other character he was made through the the force.

And Vitiate's power is stated to be immeasurable.

Enduring and merciless and quite possibly unkillable, Monoliths plainly illustrate the immeasurable power of their creator and are best avoided at all costs.

From (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Rise of the Emperor)

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
No one else so really Anakins potential is nearly limitless or at the very least indeterminate.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Also Sidious told yoda vader would become more powerful than either of them both being at that point the most powerful force wielders of all time for their respective sides, with Sidious being the most powerful dark spider and yoda being the most powerful lightsider as of ROTS. So with that Vitiate would be below Anakin in terms of raw power.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Prime Anakin is considered a mortal?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Yes. He isn't supposed to be a godlike being.

The Father wanted him to watch his children for eternity.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
He is precisely suppose to be a godlike being though.

The Father wanted him to watch his children for eternity.

I am not sure if Anakin Skywalker could hold the Daughter and the Son for long even by drawing on the power of the Mortis. He refused this role.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
It is unclear that at what point in history midichlorian testing began. However, this testing procedure wasn't used during SWTOR and earlier eras.

During these ancient times, Force-users discovered other Force-sensitives by using the Force.

Any source which affirms that Vitiate's midichlorian count is recorded?

Here is the hint:

Spoiler:
No

Your speculation is utterly baseless.

B/W I don't love fictional characters. Just because I debate for some, doesn't means that I love them. Stick to arguments at hand.

Prove it.

In recorded history.

Not a single source explicitly confirms that Master Yoda and Darth Sidious are stronger then Vitiate. Not a single.

These characters are not even the part of the same continuity.

Your assumption in this regard, just like that of others who harbor same belief, is FANON.

Yes, Anakin Skywalker had greater potential then Master Yoda and Darth Sidious in canon. This doesn't proves that Anakin had greater potential then Vitiate.

Vitiate's potential have no cap. He grows in power by drawing energy from others or consuming others on consistent basis.

There is no source that confirms yodas or Sidious Count but we know where they stand as of power ranking.

You have a big problem with believing that vitiate is below Anakin in Raw power. Why is because of your fanboyism. Anakin was stated to have the highest midiclorian count of any known Jedi,which includes yoda who in his prime no doubt would be able to match vitiate as he was able to match Sidious.

Anakin was said to have a highest midiclorian count than any other Jedi for sure even yoda. Yoda in his prime could no doubt stalemate Vitiate so with that Anakin having greater potential would have the ability to stalemate for,sure and possibly even beat. I'm not sure if this is true but isn't it stated in a source that Anakin was to be 200% of Sidious power by ROTS so at max that would mean that he would be 100% better than DE Sidious who could definitey beat Vitiate so,with that Aankin has greater potential than Vitate.

As far as I'm concerned no source will ever state this person would have beat this person. However Sidious being the most powerful Sith Lord of all time would be a vitiate, and prime yoda in his prime is no push over either. Your belief that Vitiate has more raw potential and is the greatest force weilder of all time is fanon.

I think we can all agree that DE Sidiosu beats Vitiate and prime yoda can at least stalemate him. Again I'm not sure but wasn't Anakin supposed to be like 200% greater than ROTS Sidious.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
There is no source that confirms yodas or Sidious Count but we know where they stand as of power ranking.

It is officially established that Anakin Skywalker had higher midichlorian count then that of any Force-user whose midichlorian count have been recorded. Acknowledged.

However, Vitiate's midichlorian count have never been recorded. It is unknown.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
You have a big problem with believing that vitiate is below Anakin in Raw power. Why is because of your fanboyism. Anakin was stated to have the highest midiclorian count of any known Jedi,which includes yoda who in his prime no doubt would be able to match vitiate as he was able to match Sidious.

Vitiate - arguably - had greater potential then any Jedi and/or Sith in his era since birth.

The child who will come to be known as the Sith Emperor is born. Black-eyed, heartless, and supremely strong in the dark side of the Force, the boy seizes control of his homeworld by the age of 13 and earns the title Lord Vitiate. He amasses an army of Sith followers and turns his back on Imperial politics to hone his skills in the dark side.

From (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia)

Later on, Vitiate performed a ritual which granted him seemingly unlimited potential:

Lord Vitiate takes command of the Sith Empire, now in shambles following the Great Hyperspace War. He executes the Sith Council and consumes the life force of thousands of Sith Lords in a terrifying ritual that extends his life and vastly increases his capacity as a practitioner of the Force. Lord Vitiate declares himself Emperor of the Sith. Under his sovereign rule, the Empire retreats into deep space to rebuild its strength and prepare for vengeance.

From (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia)

Unlimited potential based argument is complemented by the fact that Vitiate continued to grow in power with passage of time afterwards:

Servants of the Hand share their Master's longevity, living untouched by age for centuries under his command. In return, the Emperor draws on his servant's strength in the Force and body to feed his ever-increasing power, leaving the servants withered and frail.

From (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia)

---

Vitiate's power progression is virtually unlimited. Midichlorian count have become irrelevant for him because he have transcended mortality:

---

Makes sense, right?

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Anakin was said to have a highest midiclorian count than any other Jedi for sure even yoda. Yoda in his prime could no doubt stalemate Vitiate so with that Anakin having greater potential would have the ability to stalemate for,sure and possibly even beat.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
I'm not sure if this is true but isn't it stated in a source that Anakin was to be 200% of Sidious power by ROTS so at max that would mean that he would be 100% better than DE Sidious who could definitey beat Vitiate so,with that Aankin has greater potential than Vitate.

Anakin had greater potential then (mortal) Darth Sidious, this is not questioned. However, assuming Legends material, Sidious becomes lot more powerful in Dark Empire era.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
As far as I'm concerned no source will ever state this person would have beat this person. However Sidious being the most powerful Sith Lord of all time would be a vitiate, and prime yoda in his prime is no push over either. Your belief that Vitiate has more raw potential and is the greatest force weilder of all time is fanon.

Sidious (mortal) holds no candle to Vitiate in power. Sidious (Dark Empire era) is comparable though. But Vitiate still have superior showings/feats. Performing Force Drain (Death Field / Deadly Field) on a planetary-scale is unparalleled demonstration of sheer raw power in the mythos thus far.

Force Drain (Death Field / Deadly Field) is among the most difficult and taxing Force powers to perform. As an example, Darth Bane had to draw on the power of a nexus to create a Deadly Field of 10 meters in diameter and it still taxed him significantly.

Can you imagine the power needed to create a Death Field / Deadly Field of planetary-scale? 8000 Sith Lords are needed.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
I think we can all agree that DE Sidiosu beats Vitiate and prime yoda can at least stalemate him. Again I'm not sure but wasn't Anakin supposed to be like 200% greater than ROTS Sidious.

1. Sidious (Dark Empire era) is not demonstratively more powerful then Vitiate.

2. Both Sidious (Dark Empire era) and Vitiate massively outgun Yoda in strength and demonstrations of power.

3. That assessment have no merit.

DE Sidious doesn't "massively" outgun Yoda.

LeGenD is a retard though.

Originally posted by SunRazer
DE Sidious doesn't "massively" outgun Yoda.

Originally posted by Trocity
LeGenD is a retard though.

Now tell me your issue.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
And how is this valid for Vitiate?

It is officially established that Anakin Skywalker had higher midichlorian count then that of any Force-user whose midichlorian count have been recorded. Acknowledged.

However, Vitiate's midichlorian count have never been recorded. It is unknown.

I have a problem with this theory not because of my liking but because of the ground realities of Vitiate's power progression.

Vitiate - arguably - had greater potential then any Jedi and/or Sith in his era since birth.

The child who will come to be known as the Sith Emperor is born. Black-eyed, heartless, and supremely strong in the dark side of the Force, the boy seizes control of his homeworld by the age of 13 and earns the title Lord Vitiate. He amasses an army of Sith followers and turns his back on Imperial politics to hone his skills in the dark side.

From (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia)

Later on, Vitiate performed a ritual which granted him seemingly unlimited potential:

Lord Vitiate takes command of the Sith Empire, now in shambles following the Great Hyperspace War. He executes the Sith Council and consumes the life force of thousands of Sith Lords in a terrifying ritual that extends his life and vastly increases his capacity as a practitioner of the Force. Lord Vitiate declares himself Emperor of the Sith. Under his sovereign rule, the Empire retreats into deep space to rebuild its strength and prepare for vengeance.

From (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia)

Unlimited potential based argument is complemented by the fact that Vitiate continued to grow in power with passage of time afterwards:

Servants of the Hand share their Master's longevity, living untouched by age for centuries under his command. In return, the Emperor draws on his servant's strength in the Force and body to feed his ever-increasing power, leaving the servants withered and frail.

From (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia)

---

Vitiate's power progression is virtually unlimited. Midichlorian count have become irrelevant for him because he have transcended mortality:

---

Makes sense, right?

Vitiate is apparently, logically, and demonstratively more powerful then Jedi Master Yoda.

It was a statement of Mr. Lucas and he just made a wild guess by using the term "maybe." Some fans took his assessment at face value, ignoring the "maybe" part in it.

Anakin had greater potential then (mortal) Darth Sidious, this is not questioned. However, assuming Legends material, Sidious becomes lot more powerful in Dark Empire era.

I notice flexibility in here. Good.

Sidious (mortal) holds no candle to Vitiate in power. Sidious (Dark Empire era) is comparable though. But Vitiate still have superior showings/feats. Performing Force Drain (Death Field / Deadly Field) on a planetary-scale is unparalleled demonstration of sheer raw power in the mythos thus far.

Force Drain (Death Field / Deadly Field) is among the most difficult and taxing Force powers to perform. As an example, Darth Bane had to draw on the power of a nexus to create a Deadly Field of 10 meters in diameter and it still taxed him significantly.

Can you imagine the power needed to create a Death Field / Deadly Field of planetary-scale? 8000 Sith [B]Lords are needed.

No.

1. Sidious (Dark Empire era) is not demonstratively more powerful then Vitiate.

2. Both Sidious (Dark Empire era) and Vitiate massively outgun Yoda in strength and demonstrations of power.

3. That assessment have no merit. [/B]

Since Sidious and Yoda are both more powerful than Vititae not my a huge margin but still more powerful, and both knew that vader would become more powerful than either of them, that concludes that Anakin would have the greater potential if he were to become more powerful than them.

Also wouldnt that mean. He has the highest midiclorian count of any Jedi as he was stated to become the most powerful Jedi that ever lived. Wouldn't that mean that it traces back through the jedis 25,000 year old history?

You,are seriously trying to make a case for Vitiate. Wasn't Anakin supposed to basically be the,father in his prime. The father in his prime cirbstomps Vitiate and anyone else in the universe. He said " only the chosen one could tame both my children" showing that he is the only one. With that he wanted him to take his place and with that reaching his full potential and becoming the most powerful force weilder to ever live. The Father>Vitiate.

Really he actually didn't have greater potential. He like Darth Nihilus absorbed and drained the life out of planets and people to,satisfy hismhunger and become immortal. He was never meant to be that powerful. Sidiosu by contrast got as powerful as he needed to be on his own with his own power while Vitate needed all these rituals to get started.

In the second paragraph it says it vastly increases his amounts of potential but it's not unlimited. Anakins would most likely be unlimited due to actually being created by the force itself. Also no one from Vititates era knew about Sidious or YODA LR Luke Skywalker. So really quotes from people saying vitiate is the most powerful are sorta mute as they don't know about later force wielders.

Still no where does it say or imply that he has unlimited potential. It means as of that time he still hasn't reached his limits which actually something most force,weilder who feel that sort of power would feel that they are feeding there ever growing power. Also vitiate can't grow by himself he need rituals and other so,with that palpatine is the winner as he gets his power by his own knowledge ge and training vitiate needs to feed of the life force of thousands of,people.

The blue worded paragraph that Darth Marr states. Either I'm missing something or you are just trying to find things that don't exist. The biggest thing in there says that he has no physical form so can't be detained or killed by natural means. No where does it say that Vitiate has unlimited power, is the most powerful being ever or anything. Then the quote itself will be challenged as time goes on due to reoccurring force weilder ala people like Sidious, yoda, Caedus, Luke, higher level force weilder come into play.

Vitiate is not apparently or logically better than yoda. Yoda out of his prime was able to stalemate the most powerful Sith Lord in history. Put him in his prime I have no doubt he could at the very least stalemate him. Yoda while a popular character, his character is hidden. For instance we don't know much about his backstory, and with that his feats are limited. So demonstrated power really doesn't win a battle due if you go strictly by the movies Sidious has more demonstrated power than yoda but they stalemated one another. With that put yoda in his prime, he definitly can defeat or at e least stalemate vitiate.

Really with that we don't have anything to go off of but I personsally would say that's an estimate. So really it could range from 150%-200%. Also the father himself wanted Anakin to take his place thus proving the power he had and more importantly the potential he had to become just as powerful as the father. Sidious also stated that he would become more powerful than him and yoda. So with that George Lucas' words while a guess it's still all we got and not just far off. So with I believe Aankin by reaching his full potential would have been more powerful than DE Sidious as DE Sidious no doubt was at max 100% better then his ROTS self. This also a wild guess but this however possibly giving a little to much credit to DE palpatine. However I would say it ranges anywhere from 60-100% better than ROTS. Anakin having the potential to be 200% better than ROTS Sidious and Luke being what Anakin was supposed to be that 200% might be to low as by the end of Star Wars Luke,is the most powerful force weilder ever becoming what his,father was supposed to be but possibly a little weaker as he wasn't actually his father.

All I have to say to that is that ROTS Sidious I wou don't discount him as not being able to match vitiate but DE Sidious I would say beats him. Superior showing I won't you to you to understand. All of his feats that involve rituals don't count for a 1 on 1 as he doesn't have the time or assistance to perform them. I've seen your respect thread and nothing there isn't something Sidious can't replicate, defend against, hasn't already done, or a ritual was needed to do it.

With that Vitiates power wasn't enough to do it by himself. It took him and 8000 other willing Sith Lords and about 10 days to do it. So not really impressed as it has no combative applications and it takes to long.

1. Well of course you don't agree. I don't understand why but you don't. DE Sidious is said to be the most powerful Sith of all time in fact Darth Isidous as of ROTS is said to be the most powerful Sith Lord of all time. DE is overkill he has far greater powers than before on a greater scale of magnitude and variety. Actually Sidious kinda is, in physical forms. I've read your respect thread and agin nothing in their to put vitiate on top of palpatine.

2. DE Sidiosu does but Vitiate doesn't IMO.

3. Your assessment has no merit. Yours is really and honestly fanon.

I see you're still keeping it irrelevant to the topic.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Since Sidious and Yoda are both more powerful than Vititae not my a huge margin but still more powerful, and both knew that vader would become more powerful than either of them, that concludes that Anakin would have the greater potential if he were to become more powerful than them.

Darth Sidious and Master Yoda are more powerful then Vitiate based on what exactly?

Outdated sources should be treated with caution in the matters of promotion of characters.

Darth Bane is stated to be the dark side's most powerful master in an outdated source. Here is the evidence: http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/4/48954/3451164-doe+back+cover.jpg

So should we assume that Darth Bane is more powerful then Vitiate?

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Also wouldnt that mean. He has the highest midiclorian count of any Jedi as he was stated to become the most powerful Jedi that ever lived. Wouldn't that mean that it traces back through the jedis 25,000 year old history?

Anakin is stated to become one of the most powerful Jedi ever in the Star Wars Databank. This is latest revelation and promotion.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
You,are seriously trying to make a case for Vitiate. Wasn't Anakin supposed to basically be the,father in his prime. The father in his prime cirbstomps Vitiate and anyone else in the universe. He said " only the chosen one could tame both my children" showing that he is the only one. With that he wanted him to take his place and with that reaching his full potential and becoming the most powerful force weilder to ever live. The Father>Vitiate.

Anyways, Anakin wouldn't have become as powerful as the Father. The latter believed that The Chosen One could take his place but Anakin wasn't sure about it and refused this offer.

Temporary subjugation of the Daughter and the Son by virtue of drawing on the power of the Mortis, isn't sufficient evidence of Anakin's ability to contain them. This feat is not an indication of Anakin's peak potential, rather indicative of the power of Mortis. Anakin was able to perform this feat by drawing on the power of the Mortis realm.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Really he actually didn't have greater potential. He like Darth Nihilus absorbed and drained the life out of planets and people to,satisfy hismhunger and become immortal. He was never meant to be that powerful. Sidiosu by contrast got as powerful as he needed to be on his own with his own power while Vitate needed all these rituals to get started.

You need to understand the difference between Medriaas (Nathema) event and Ziost (Nathema) event.

Medriaas (Nathema) event took place during 4999 BBY. For preparation of this event, Vitiate orchestrated a ritual and convinced thousands of Sith Lords to join him.

Ziost (Nathema) event took place during 3640 BBY. Vitiate performed this action single-handedly.

Between the time span of both events (4999 - 3640 BBY), Vitiate had substantially grown in power.

Clear now?

Originally posted by AncientPower
No, disney has said that SWTOR is Bioware's own alternate universe that they won't be messing with. It isn't legends or canon? It's the SWTOR continuity.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Disney has also said that, "TOR is, and always has been, a part of the EU." TOR isn't so special that it has its own continuity.