Caedus vs. Vitiate

Started by S_W_LeGenD6 pages

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
In the second paragraph it says it vastly increases his amounts of potential but it's not unlimited.

Yes, but Vitiate's power progression is virtually unlimited.

Vitiate have the potential to become all-powerful.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Anakins would most likely be unlimited due to actually being created by the force itself.

Anakin doesn't have unlimited potential. His limit is officially defined:-

Discovered as a slave on Tatooine by Qui-Gon Jinn and Obi-Wan Kenobi, Anakin Skywalker had the potential to become one of the most powerful Jedi ever, and was believed by some to be the prophesied Chosen One who would bring balance to the Force.

Taken from Star Wars: Databank

How many times I have to cite this information to correct you?

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Also no one from Vititates era knew about Sidious or YODA LR Luke Skywalker. So really quotes from people saying vitiate is the most powerful are sorta mute as they don't know about later force wielders.

This doesn't matters. Vitiate have superior showings then all of them.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Still no where does it say or imply that he has unlimited potential. It means as of that time he still hasn't reached his limits which actually something most force,weilder who feel that sort of power would feel that they are feeding there ever growing power. Also vitiate can't grow by himself he need rituals and other so,with that palpatine is the winner as he gets his power by his own knowledge ge and training vitiate needs to feed of the life force of thousands of,people.

Again, you are making no sense here.

Vitiate will become all-powerful, if he is able to consume other beings on galactic scale. This is his peak and nothing can be better.

Living beings don't grow in power throughout their lives. They undergo natural arc of growth and decline. Living beings reach their prime at a certain point in their lives but begin to decline afterwards due to aging process. You can notice this in the example of Yoda. Want more examples?

Vitiate doesn't needs rituals to grow in power. He grows in power by using his Force Drain powers to feed on other beings.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
The blue worded paragraph that Darth Marr states. Either I'm missing something or you are just trying to find things that don't exist. The biggest thing in there says that he has no physical form so can't be detained or killed by natural means. No where does it say that Vitiate has unlimited power, is the most powerful being ever or anything. Then the quote itself will be challenged as time goes on due to reoccurring force weilder ala people like Sidious, yoda, Caedus, Luke, higher level force weilder come into play.

I am never dishonest in my disclosures, I never fabricate information. So never ever doubt my citations.

Darth Marr disclosed to his agents that Vitiate have become so powerful and evolved to such a degree that he cannot be stopped using conventional methods. This is correct because Vitiate have transcended mortality and acquired the capability to exist without a physical form. Conventional methods are not going to stop a being of such power and capabilities. Simple.

And I have addressed the unlimited power argument earlier.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Vitiate is not apparently or logically better than yoda. Yoda out of his prime was able to stalemate the most powerful Sith Lord in history. Put him in his prime I have no doubt he could at the very least stalemate him. Yoda while a popular character, his character is hidden. For instance we don't know much about his backstory, and with that his feats are limited. So demonstrated power really doesn't win a battle due if you go strictly by the movies Sidious has more demonstrated power than yoda but they stalemated one another. With that put yoda in his prime, he definitly can defeat or at e least stalemate vitiate.

I don't take that accolade seriously anymore just like that of Darth Bane due to reasons that I have already mentioned. If I am to take these promotions seriously then Darth Bane shall be regarded as the most powerful practitioner of the dark side.

Vitiate have vastly superior showings then Yoda and therefore massively outguns the latter in the matter of raw power.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Really with that we don't have anything to go off of but I personsally would say that's an estimate. So really it could range from 150%-200%. Also the father himself wanted Anakin to take his place thus proving the power he had and more importantly the potential he had to become just as powerful as the father. Sidious also stated that he would become more powerful than him and yoda. So with that George Lucas' words while a guess it's still all we got and not just far off. So with I believe Aankin by reaching his full potential would have been more powerful than DE Sidious as DE Sidious no doubt was at max 100% better then his ROTS self. This also a wild guess but this however possibly giving a little to much credit to DE palpatine. However I would say it ranges anywhere from 60-100% better than ROTS. Anakin having the potential to be 200% better than ROTS Sidious and Luke being what Anakin was supposed to be that 200% might be to low as by the end of Star Wars Luke,is the most powerful force weilder ever becoming what his,father was supposed to be but possibly a little weaker as he wasn't actually his father.

I have addressed this nonsense already. I don't feel the need to repeat myself again and again. And don't bring maths into these arguments.

Legend, no one takes your starwars.com description "retcon" of Anakin seriously. It bewilders me on why you continue to try to use it.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Legend, no one takes your starwars.com description "retcon" of Anakin seriously. It bewilders me on why you continue to try to use it.

It is not "my" description. It is the official stance of Disney about the potential of Anakin Skywalker. And it should be taken seriously. Because Disney decides what is true and not. Fans don't.

Except it shouldn't. Countless sources also label Luke and Yoda as "one of the most powerful Jedi in the galaxy" despite us knowing they are in fact the greatest.

Saying Anakin Skywalker (the Chosen One) is not the most powerful being in history is pretty much just ignoring a key principle of the Star Wars galaxy itself.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
All I have to say to that is that ROTS Sidious I wou don't discount him as not being able to match vitiate but DE Sidious I would say beats him. Superior showing I won't you to you to understand. All of his feats that involve rituals don't count for a 1 on 1 as he doesn't have the time or assistance to perform them.

I am aware of only two feats of Vitiate that are ritual-centric. His other showings are not ritual-centric including the Ziost (Nathema) event.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
I've seen your respect thread and nothing there isn't something Sidious can't replicate, defend against, hasn't already done, or a ritual was needed to do it.

Prove it.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
With that Vitiates power wasn't enough to do it by himself. It took him and 8000 other willing Sith Lords and about 10 days to do it. So not really impressed as it has no combative applications and it takes to long.

Here:

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
You need to understand the difference between Medriaas (Nathema) event and Ziost (Nathema) event.

Medriaas (Nathema) event took place during 4999 BBY. For preparation of this event, Vitiate orchestrated a ritual and convinced thousands of Sith Lords to join him.

Ziost (Nathema) event took place during 3640 BBY. Vitiate performed this action single-handedly.

Between the time span of both events (4999 - 3640 BBY), Vitiate had substantially grown in power.

Clear now?

---

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
1. Well of course you don't agree. I don't understand why but you don't. DE Sidious is said to be the most powerful Sith of all time in fact Darth Isidous as of ROTS is said to be the most powerful Sith Lord of all time. DE is overkill he has far greater powers than before on a greater scale of magnitude and variety. Actually Sidious kinda is, in physical forms. I've read your respect thread and agin nothing in their to put vitiate on top of palpatine.

I have went to great lengths to explain Vitiate's power and capabilities, created respect profiles of this matter. If you are not able to understand content featuring Vitiate, then I cannot assist you further in this regard.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
2. DE Sidiosu does but Vitiate doesn't IMO.

Wrong.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Fanon nonsense tbh

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Except it shouldn't. Countless sources also label Luke and Yoda as "one of the most powerful Jedi in the galaxy" despite us knowing they are in fact the greatest.

Here:

Yoda was a legendary Jedi Master and stronger than most in his connection with the Force.

Taken from Star Wars: Databank

Yoda is among the best but he can be surpassed.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Saying Anakin Skywalker (the Chosen One) is not the most powerful being in history is pretty much just ignoring a key principle of the Star Wars galaxy itself.

That key principal is being retconned.

At some point in the future, Disney may like to introduce characters more powerful then Anakin Skywalker. For this purpose, Disney have to redefine Anakin's hype and the entire canon content as well. Disney have already taken steps towards this end.

Originally posted by Trocity
Fanon nonsense tbh

You should stop trolling and come up with an argument, if you have the intellectual capability to formulate one.

Shut up, Legend. You're the most biased debater I've ever encountered on a forum.

Engaging you in a 'legitimate' conversation is an utter waste of time.

Originally posted by Trocity
Shut up, Legend. You're the most biased debater I've ever encountered on a forum.

Engaging you in a 'legitimate' conversation is an utter waste of time.


👆

Tbh everyone sees that (I hope). I'd advice you to put him on ignore tbh. I did and do not regret it 🙂

EDIT: On topic. I think Caedus has a fair chance to win this.

Originally posted by Trocity
Shut up, Legend. You're the most biased debater I've ever encountered on a forum.

Engaging you in a 'legitimate' conversation is an utter waste of time.


Agreement and/or disagreement on the matters of Star Wars is acceptable and shall be expected but trolling and being rude to others is not welcome. Either you join the conversation/debate or stay quiet.

Originally posted by Stigma
👆

Tbh everyone sees that (I hope). I'd advice you to put him on ignore tbh. I did and do not regret it 🙂


Mind your own business, you troll.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I am aware of only two feats of Vitiate that are ritual-centric. His other showings are not ritual-centric including the Ziost (Nathema) event.

Prove it.

Here:

---

I have went to great lengths to explain Vitiate's power and capabilities, created respect profiles of this matter. If you are not able to understand content featuring Vitiate, then I cannot assist you further in this regard.

Wrong.

See here is my thing. From your respect thread you state how vitiate used many rituals and that's what caused the weather on Dramuand Kass is that correct? I read on Silvers Respect thread that Sidiosu was able to conjure a storm on Vjun by just being in holographic form. So with that who is more powerful, someone who needs several rituals to make it seem very cloudy on his home planet while palpatine in his below DE form during the time of Dooku was able to cause a storm without even being on the planet.

See this paragraph is where fanon comes into play. You say prove it and I say something and you say no. I've read your respect thread. My personal view, there was nothing there that Sidious couldn't defend, hasn't already done, or could replicate.

I would Hope his power grew over 1000 years. However that doesn't prove that he is on palpatines level of skill of yoda said or anything. It shows he had a power upgrade.

This paragraph is you complaining for no reason. You have told me about vitiate and after that I'm still not convinced he beats palpatine. So really you are trying to say I've gone to great lengths to change your mind but you won't change it. Well that's because Sidious is the obvious answer. While possibly not a large margin it's still large enough to where Sidious wins 7-8/10 battles.

Opinion.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
See here is my thing. From your respect thread you state how vitiate used many rituals and that's what caused the weather on Dramuand Kass is that correct? I read on Silvers Respect thread that Sidiosu was able to conjure a storm on Vjun by just being in holographic form. So with that who is more powerful, someone who needs several rituals to make it seem very cloudy on his home planet while palpatine in his below DE form during the time of Dooku was able to cause a storm without even being on the planet.

I have checked that feat of Sidious. While impressive, it cannot be compared to Vitiate's weather-altering feat on Dromund Kaas. Vitiate altered the weather conditions of Dromund Kaas on planetary-scale; impact was so severe that the notion of day and night became meaningless on Dromund Kaas, the entire planet was shrouded in darkness and storms for centuries or permanently.

Sidious stirred up a storm in the surroundings of Count Dooku and it dissipated after Sidious ended his holographic transmission. Impressive, but Vitiate's feat of similar nature is on a whole new level and have never been duplicated per my knowledge.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
See this paragraph is where fanon comes into play. You say prove it and I say something and you say no. I've read your respect thread. My personal view, there was nothing there that Sidious couldn't defend, hasn't already done, or could replicate.

Problem is with your understanding of things being discussed. See above as an indicator.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
I would Hope his power grew over 1000 years. However that doesn't prove that he is on palpatines level of skill of yoda said or anything. It shows he had a power upgrade.

You would hope? Vitiate substantially grew in power in a span of 1000 years. He became so powerful that he could orchestrate Nathema event on his own.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
This paragraph is you complaining for no reason. You have told me about vitiate and after that I'm still not convinced he beats palpatine. So really you are trying to say I've gone to great lengths to change your mind but you won't change it. Well that's because Sidious is the obvious answer. While possibly not a large margin it's still large enough to where Sidious wins 7-8/10 battles.

Opinion.


I maintain that Vitiate have superior showings then Sidious.

Why am I not surprised that a thread with Vitiate in it that has nothing to do with Sidious managed to turn into a Vitiate vs Sidious debate.

Legend is a neutral party in comparison to the likes of quanchi, just go over to movie discussion's versus forum and try to debate *insert sw character here* vs Khan(Star Trek Into Darkness), I'm sure you'll appreciate the star wars versus section after that.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Legend is a neutral party in comparison to the likes of quanchi, just go over to movie discussion's versus forum and try to debate *insert sw character here* vs Khan(Star Trek Into Darkness), I'm sure you'll appreciate the star wars versus section after that.

LOL so true about quanchi 👆

Still, both him and LeGenD are pretty bad.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Why am I not surprised that a thread with Vitiate in it that has nothing to do with Sidious managed to turn into a Vitiate vs Sidious debate.

True. I hope we can go back to Viti vs. Caedus discussion.

👆

I think an argument can be made for Caedus but even before the new patches and SoR, I think Vitiate had surpassed him in the force by a margin and now the gap is even bigger.

Caedus is clearly the superior duelist as Vitiate lacks saber feats but that didn't stop him from stomping enemies who can duel much better than him. Some people claim he would be finished the moment someone closes the gap between them but that doesn't seem to be the case at all. He doesn't even try to keep the distance when he is in combat. He even prefers getting near his enemies on several occasions. If he was as vulnerable as some people think, he wouldn't be so chill about walking up to his enemies especially when you consider the fact that his main motivation is fear of death.

So I think Vitiate can exhaust him with constant force attacks and even if Caedus closes the gap at some point, Vitiate can still turn this into a force fight again and continue to pour more and more on Caedus. At some point, Caedus will be overwhelmed and fall.

Would be one hell of a fight IMO

Re: Caedus vs. Vitiate

Originally posted by Stigma
I think I'm going with Caedus.

He's powerful enough to withstand Vitiate's assault and skilled enough to make short work of him when he gets close.