Originally posted by psmith81992
I cannot prove god exists any more than you can prove that he doesn't, so calling religion "irrational" is reaching.
While true, this really is a cop out. When you look at evidence logically, one should deduce that god, at least, gods that human beings have thought up ( we'll use the christian god as an example ) doesn't exist - so one then could deduce that yes, most religious people ARE religious based primarily on "faith."
I could sit here all day and throw questions at you and you would find some way to deflect them instead of actually answering. Most priests today even acknowledge that it's very likely human beings evolved from primates.
God is an ever receeding pocket of scientific ignorance.
I'm not trying to be a prick, I just hate when people say "you can't prove he doesn't exist", when year after year, we learn more and more about our world and the universe, and evidence overwhelmingly suggests these gods we have aren't real.
Originally posted by psmith81992
It's as mediocre as your grasp of the english language, apparently 😂Wait what? The majority of religious people aren't religious based primarily on faith. That would be stupid. There is no indisputable evidence that God exists, I agree. A lot of the stuff in the Torah coincides with ancient history. I cannot prove god exists any more than you can prove that he doesn't, so calling religion "irrational" is reaching.
We also can't disprove the existence of an invisible man who's only inside of your house when you're outside of your house, but that doesn't mean belief in that invisible man has a rational basis.
While true, this really is a cop out. When you look at evidence logically, one should deduce that god, at least, gods that human beings have thought up ( we'll use the christian god as an example ) doesn't exist - so one then could deduce that yes, most religious people ARE religious based primarily on "faith."
I could sit here all day and throw questions at you and you would find some way to deflect them instead of actually answering. Most priests today even acknowledge that it's very likely human beings evolved from primates.
I'm not trying to be a prick, I just hate when people say "you can't prove he doesn't exist", when year after year, we learn more and more about our world and the universe, and evidence overwhelmingly suggests these gods we have aren't real.
Originally posted by psmith81992
That's not the basis of belief. It's a factual statement though. I can't prove God exists, you can't prove he doesn't, everything is conjecture.
Hence why people bring up the invisible men in your house or teapots on the dark side of saturn. To show how "you can't prove it doesn't exist" is not equally valid to "you can't prove it does exist"
At any rate, I don't think that people are necessarily irrational in their beliefs, there's tangible benefits in Religious communities, etc., but the belief itself is not based on anything rational.
Originally posted by psmith81992
You're spouting a tautology right here. Right off the bat you state that "human beings" have thought him up. So by your very definition, God is a man made phenomena and is such, any religion can be attributed to "blind faith". That doesn't work.
What I was trying to get at is the gods that are present all over earth in many different cultures are thought up. I'm not trying to say there is definitively no higher power that made everything - I am certainly saying the gods of various cultures are made up.
Why is it you believe in your god and not someone else's? Is it faith? Or is there simply more "evidence" (in your opinion) to that particular god existing? Either way, you lose, my friend.
Originally posted by psmith81992
I could do the exact same with you and you would deflect them as well. Let's not be hypocritical. Plus the fact that you believe evolution contradicts the bible shows a lack of biblical knowledge. I won't go as far as say you're arguing from ignorance but it's coming very close.
No, you would be right - I'm not arguing from ignorance, I'm arguing from evidence.
Evolution doesn't contradict the bible, okay fair enough. So you would be prepared to admit that the story of Adam and Eve is just that - a story? Why then should we believe anything else written in the bible?
Originally posted by psmith81992
This is reaching because none of this knowledge concludes that God doesn't exist. Science isn't in the business of disproving God. Secularists are as you're desperately trying to do. I'm not arguing with you that God exists. If I were, I would have to prove it. But if you're arguing that he doesn't, then the burden of proof is on you. We can agree to disagree, since I've realized most secularists are "special snowflakes" who are too intelligent to believe in fairy tales, and most definitely are the masters of their own fates. Both sides has morons.
Believe me, I'm not desperately trying to disprove god. I long ago realized people of faith are going to ignore evidence and go on how they feel or how they were raised and that's okay.
Special snowflakes? I didn't know this discussion was upsetting you.
At any rate, I don't think that people are necessarily irrational in their beliefs, there's tangible benefits in Religious communities, etc., but the belief itself is not based on anything rational.
What I was trying to get at is the gods that are present all over earth in many different cultures are thought up. I'm not trying to say there is definitively no higher power that made everything - I am certainly saying the gods of various cultures are made up.
Why is it you believe in your god and not someone else's? Is it faith? Or is there simply more "evidence" (in your opinion) to that particular god existing? Either way, you lose, my friend.
No, you would be right - I'm not arguing from ignorance, I'm arguing from evidence.
Evolution doesn't contradict the bible, okay fair enough. So you would be prepared to admit that the story of Adam and Eve is just that - a story? Why then should we believe anything else written in the bible?
I long ago realized people of faith are going to ignore evidence and go on how they feel or how they were raised and that's okay.
Special snowflakes? I didn't know this discussion was upsetting you
psmith, you are taking this discussion a long way off-topic mostly just by being picky about what people are saying. It's neither useful nor productive; please don;t be like that in threads in future.
Though also, if all people could avoid getting into the likes of elongated troll accusations- which becomes trolling itself when you keep at it- that would be appreciated.
If you want to argue religion and rationality, open a thread in the religion forum. Meanwhile in this thread, Beniboybling was clearly just saying that religion is not an excuse for intolerance, in this case related to gay marriage. Back to topic from there please.
Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
My only gripe here is that this ruling did not undergo the constitutional process.
If majority of the states are against it, then let it be. LGBT weddings can still be had in the rest of the states.Btw, before you label me as a homophobe, if you don't know by now I am part of the LGBT community.
But it is not exactly fair to tell one group of people "you can get married here" and then another group "you have to go to another state".
Any state that wants to actively chase its citizens away needs to undergo a serious internal overhaul.
Originally posted by psmith81992
Explain how I lose there's "evidence" in my opinion?
I was mostly just poking fun, I really don't take these debates seriously because they never go anywhere. There's far, far more evidence suggesting that god/the bible are fabrications of man than there is evidence that the god in the bible actually exists. I assumed you believed in your god because Zeus, Poseidon, Anubis, Ra, etc. are clearly made up by people who did not understand the workings of the earth/the universe. There is no evidence for them existing. The bible exists and there's a lot more going for Christianity in terms of "evidence" for lack of a better word - I just think the evidence against it is overwhelming, though I understand there are ways to somehow explain it away and still claim the bible is true and whatever. The reasoning behind those claims just never holds up imo.
Originally posted by psmith81992
First off, you're saying if one thing is an allegory, then the entire thing is invalid? That doesn't make any sense. And no, Adam and Eve (at least in my bible) isn't a "story". They also came after the animals were created. Hence, no contradiction with evolution.
Not necessarily, but why should anything else be true if such a key story in the bible is simply allegory? Where did original sin come from if so?
When exactly did they come? Because we know for a fact human beings did not co-exist with dinosaurs, so was it just god's wrath getting rid of one species to make way for his true children? Not going to get into Moses parting the sea or Noah's ark, but you can see why I might be skeptical.
I also find it a little silly that an omnipotent, omniscient god created the earth in six days and for some reason had to rest on the seventh? Plus, days? So the sun had been made and the incomplete earth was already rotating around it as god toiled away? This might be nitpicking, but I just find it silly. 6 Days to make his masterpiece, I can't even fathom how long it took him to create the countless other planets/stars/galaxies in our confirmed ever expanding universe. Or why he even made all that shit. Unless you are suggesting they're just random cast-offs from his grand design or some such and he didn't really make all of it.
Originally posted by psmith81992
That's like me saying "I long ago realized secularists/atheists are going to continue arguing against God without any evidence whatsoever". It makes as much sense as your point because there is no evidence that denies the existence of God.
I suppose that's fair. That's why I would say what we have learned about the universe "suggests", and strongly suggests, otherwise.
EDIT - Just saw Ushgarak's post. Will stop discussing this in this thread, apologies.