Peak Molecule Man vs. Peak Sentry

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
I don't think the author tried to hard to make a weakened mental state obvious. Just screams of an excuse, and I mean for ANY character. A strong mind helps you in a fight, correct? Hell, don't give the Superman fans another excuse.

Some things aren't always specified or directly hinted at in comics. In SIEGE we know that Thor only was able to kill Sentry because Robert wanted to die. Bendis then later said that he didn't want to include a line where Spider-Man says.

"Damn - If Sentry didn't want to die we wouldn't have killed him."

We have many hints that Molecule Man wasn't fully right in the head at that time. He had created images of people such as the Beyonder, Dormammu and Mephisto who were telling him what to do and how to do things. You can't always have a direct hint in the comic that something is true or not. The author will instead leave little nuggets of information because if he has to add a big hint then it feels forced and breaks immersion.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
Weak mindset or not, Owen is the master of his power set. Sentry was less than a neophyte, he didn't even know how he was doing the stuff he did. Owen should have DOMINATED him, and he lost. What happens when Sentry gains just a little experience?

If Owen is unstable thereby a bit weakened then no matter if he is using all that he can at the time he still wont be ale to make it count. I still think that feat is a very good one for Sentry, Despite the fact that Molecule Man was weakened nobody can deny Owen still ha a degree of control over his molecules and was still extremely dangerous. And he presumably was trying to resist having his molecules being controlled.

Going on your example about him being experienced and stuff. Sentry we know has the power in him to defeat the Void when he is stable. Able to emit energy that can destroy entire worlds while holding back. Yet when he fights Hulk during the WWH story line he can just about manage a stalemate. While Sentry is naturally extremely powerful if he can't control his power or he's weakened he just wont be able to reach the upper echelons of his power.

Sentry may have been new to this whole Molecular Manipulation game. But him being able to do what he did could be more testament to his raw power when it comes to that. He just has an extreme level of power with his molecules which happened to help when fighting Molecule Man. Sentry seemed to have control over his powers in Uncanny Avengers if you wanted to have a look.

It was a great feat for Sentry, because even when he's unstable, Owen is still extremely powerful... He's just not the nigh-omnipotent/multiversal powerhouse we've seen when he's stable, is all.

*edit
Although I suppose the "multiversal" thing can now be scratched off the list. According to Hickman's retcon, any one version of Owen is only a universal force these days. /shrug

Originally posted by Galan007
It was a great feat for Sentry, because even when he's unstable, Owen is still extremely powerful... He's just not the nigh-omnipotent/multiversal powerhouse we've seen when he's stable, is all.

*edit
Although I suppose the "multiversal" thing can now be scratched off the list. According to Hickman's retcon, any one version of Owen is only a universal force these days. /shrug

I agree 👆

MM would absolutely slaughter him. Just go back and read the kind of crap MM was doing when he fought the Beyonder. At his peak he is far beyond Sentry.

Especially since neither before nor after his fight with MM did he ever do anything on the scale of what MM did.

Hell, wasn't MM having some trouble with Wolverine's f*cking son? Or am I remembering wrong?

Originally posted by Surtur
MM would absolutely slaughter him. Just go back and read the kind of crap MM was doing when he fought the Beyonder. At his peak he is far beyond Sentry.

Especially since neither before nor after his fight with MM did he ever do anything on the scale of what MM did.

Hell, wasn't MM having some trouble with Wolverine's f*cking son? Or am I remembering wrong?

❌

Nope... A full power unstable SENTRY has too many options. SENTRY wins 8/10

Originally posted by Galan007
The bios are stating facts from the story, not giving opinions. srsly

And all the bios state is what most already knew: that Owen's power was neutered when Sentry beat him, because he was in an unstable mental state... Which is an opinion you seem to share anyway.

Poor example, though? Lol.

I have ALL marvel handbooks and your source material don't looks official at all.

Originally posted by Galan007

Additionally, this bio confirms that Owen was in a weakened mental state when he confronted Sentry, therefore was operating at a sub-standard level:
http://i.imgur.com/LfMc2Zk.png
"When he's up, he is nigh-omnipotent and able to challenge the likes of the Beyonder. When he's down, he's powerful, but can be overcome by the likes of the Sentry."

And even then, Sentry waited until Owen was distracted before attacking him:
http://i.imgur.com/opJQVjG.png
"While he was side-tracked, the Sentry reconstituted himself and played Reece at his own game, manipulating molecules and controlling matter."

So yeah, peak Owen stomps w/o much effort.

Remember us and Opr proving this point for 20+ pages some time ago? 20+ pages due to two special trolls.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet

I don't think the author tried to hard to make a weakened mental state obvious.

In the first on panel truth, Owen literally gauges the scale he controls by using a reference:

"I control the molecules of the world, well, the ones around me."

Translation for the laymen: I can't control molecules on a global scale! ... only molecules around me.
I mean, Norman had come into "his world" (close enough to him) to be affected by Owen.
The same detail applies to all the Avengers he owned. All at close range.

Second scan: Bendis again, tells us basically the same shit via another character named Victoria Hand.

--------------------------------------------------------

While Sentry has definitely developed an upgrade,
Sentry still won via a stipulation cause when/while Owen was focused on him Sentry was getting owned.

That and the fact that Owen, wanted to fail according to the friends he created,
these "friends" who were an image of his sub-conscious.

--------------------------------------------------------

Anywho, if anyone is interested in further "on panel" details concerning Owen/Dark Avengers ...

... just about everyone that participated in this 20+ page thread agreed with Mr Master/Galan/Opr and so forth:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=586506&pagenumber=8

Well, they didn't exactly agree with just "us," but with the On Panel supported factual truth presented by "us."

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet

Owen should have DOMINATED him, and he lost.

Originally posted by Galan007
Agreed. 👆

Additionally, this bio confirms that Owen was in a weakened mental state when he confronted Sentry, therefore was operating at a sub-standard level:
http://i.imgur.com/LfMc2Zk.png
"When he's up, he is nigh-omnipotent and able to challenge the likes of the Beyonder. When he's down, he's powerful, but can be overcome by the likes of the Sentry."

And even then, Sentry waited until Owen was distracted before attacking him:
http://i.imgur.com/opJQVjG.png
"While he was side-tracked, the Sentry reconstituted himself and played Reece at his own game, manipulating molecules and controlling matter."

So yeah, peak Owen stomps w/o much effort.

Originally posted by RealityWarper
I have ALL marvel handbooks

Originally posted by Galan007
Apparently not. 🙂

The next Marvel Hanbook will be up in 20 days.

You obviously don't use an official source.

You're right. I typed up those pages myself, and Photoshopped-in pics of Owen, with my mad editing skills. Lol, people like you make me laugh.

Have a good day. 👆

Originally posted by Galan007
You're right. I typed up those pages myself, and Photoshopped-in pics of Owen, with my mad editing skills. Lol, people like you make me laugh. 👆

The last Marvel Handbook is "Avengers Now !" and the next marvel handbook haven't been edited now so I would to know your source because it's obviously not an official source.

I didn't say that you did it.

I said that someone did it and that's not an official source, and as Marvel didn't do it it's not usable in any ways.

But please prove me wrong, I'm waiting.

This guy obviously post something wrong and none of you ask him where he got the info, nor whom did it ?

Shame on you guys.

That the basics when you try to collect some reliable information...

Originally posted by RealityWarper
This guy obviously post something wrong and none of you ask him where he got the info, nor whom did it ?

Shame on you guys.

That the basics when you try to collect some reliable information...

I guess the onus is on you, a relatively new poster, to prove that he's wrong.

I mean, I can say he's wrong too. But I would need to prove it.

Galan's posted a scan. Said it's from a hand book.

You've said it's not. So prove it. Post some proof of your own.

Accusations and mudslinging isn't proof.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I guess the onus is on you, a relatively new poster, to prove that he's wrong.

I mean, I can say he's wrong too. But I would need to prove it.

Galan's posted a scan. Said it's from a hand book.

You've said it's not. So prove it. Post some proof of your own.

Accusations and mudslinging isn't proof.

I already gave the informations needed.

The last Marvel Handbook is "Avengers NOW !" the next will be up the 27 th july.

So he obviously don't use an official source.

Is Google too complicated for you ?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I guess the onus is on you, a relatively new poster, to prove that he's wrong.

I mean, I can say he's wrong too. But I would need to prove it.

Galan's posted a scan. Said it's from a hand book.

You've said it's not. So prove it. Post some proof of your own.

Accusations and mudslinging isn't proof.

It's funny to see the hatred this guy has for me, though. He's acting like those bios totally contradict what happened on panel(they obviously do not), and I posted them as a means to trick the membership... And then when I don't promptly respond to his accusations, he starts flaming. 😂

Originally posted by Tony Stark
❌

Nope... A full power unstable SENTRY has too many options. SENTRY wins 8/10

I will play along: feats for Sentry that compare to Molecule Man's best feats?

Just to note: Molecule Man and Beyonder were on the verge of causing multiversal destruction due to their fight.

I already know Sentry has zero feats on this level, but I'm quite curious as to what feats you are going to try to interpret as being comparable to MM's best stuff.

Originally posted by RealityWarper
I already gave the informations needed.

The last Marvel Handbook is "Avengers NOW !" the next will be up the 27 th july.

So he obviously don't use an official source.

Is Google too complicated for you ?

And if I said my copy of Avengers Now has that bio in there, what would you do?

Impasse.

Is debating too difficult for you?

Originally posted by Galan007
Truth be told, I don't remember where I got that scan from(I posted it here a while ago, but can't recall the thread.) I know it's from a Marvel-authorized book, but that's about it. /shrug

It's funny to see the hatred this guy has for me, though. He's acting like those bios totally contradict what happened on panel(they obviously do not), and I posted them as a means to trick the membership... And then when I don't promptly respond to his accusations, he starts flaming. 😂

1) So I as said you don't know what your sources are. The Marvel Handbooks are written by Mike O'Sullivan, Jeff Christiansen and their team.

2) The hatred ? Not at all. I don't know you.

3) They obviously contradict what happened on panel... Molecule Man wasn't depowered / weakened in the slightest. Only his mental blocks related to his abilities can stop him to use his power at his best.

4) I'm not flaming. I'm just pointing out how fast you run on some informations without checking if your source is good or not.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
And if I said my copy of Avengers Now has that bio in there, what would you do?

Impasse.

Is debating too difficult for you?

Impasse ?

Man... I have ALL BIOS and I have read everything that I need about the topic Sentry Vs Molecule Man so if you say that you have that bio in your copy of "Avengers NOW !" you are just lying a bit.