Exar Kun vs. Palpatine

Started by SunRazer44 pages

How is Anoon more skilled than Kun? Because he has an accolde saying he's one of the most skilled in history?

lol wat

Anoon>Kun because Anoon's a Weapons Master?

Really shittly logic considering Kun beat Vodo who was also a Weapons Master.

That wasn't really his argument lel.

I had something to say here, but really failed to put fitting words to it. mmm

Nai seemed to be going on about Kun being the best in 600 years, so I presented a similar accolade regarding someone else. And it's only logical that being considered one of the best in 25 000 years is more impressive than being considered the best in 600 years, no? Not saying Bondara would beat Kun, but I am saying he has more raw skill.

As for Vodo, unless you count sparring matches, he defended against everything Kun threw at him in their fight, from Force abilities to lightsaber combat, while holding back, and lost because of stamina issues, as per The Essential Chronology.

So Anakin never beat Dooku, right?
And Sidious neither beat Yoda?

Originally posted by Freedon Nadd
So Anakin never beat Dooku, right?
And Sidious neither beat Yoda?

Wut?

Originally posted by SunRazer
I don't know why we're trying to nitpick the fallibility of individual accolades. When you have that many accolades saying the same thing, it's pretty damn obvious what the holistic intent for that character is - to be the most powerful.

Especially when at most the quotes are questionable, as in not 100%, but they're hardly outright disproved either. I think there's no question anymore after you have more than a dozen of those quotes.


1. Because for starters: You should remember that these characters are written by 'infallible'people.
2. It's also depending of the context of time. Accolades are rendered obsolete due to the passing of time because newer material is introduced.
3. You have to analyze the sources' context.
4. As our good old pal' Optimus said,
"Don't believe everything that you read."
5. It's just fiction in the first place. And the change is the only constant in the universe.
Tbh, all Lucas fanboys are no more impressive than atheists.
Everything can be put under the "?" and debated. Unless you're Sith and deal in absolutes. And for you 'power' means only "UNLIMITED POWER!", to quote the Sheevites' Lord.

Originally posted by Azronger
Wut?

Stamina problems and holding back(well at least this for Anakin)

And if you refer at Jedi Kun. Then it doesn't take much to understand that neither Kun was bending on killing Vodo. And even he held back. So this instance doesn't solve anything. Using common sense it is obvious that Vodo held back; just like Kun for that matter.

Kun didn't hold back. He wanted to turn his master, but the moment Vodo said: "Nah", Exar was willing to kill him, hence why he did so.

Originally posted by MythLord
Kun didn't hold back. He wanted to turn his master, but the moment Vodo said: "Nah", Exar was willing to kill him, hence why he did so.

Jedi Kun turning his master to what? Hot chicks and cookies?
I wasn't referring to Ulic's Trial scene when Kun comes to save his ass.
And even there; Vodo held back for a little only. And then was ready to defeat Kun.
Just because Vodo was holding back from killing Kun; it doesn't mean that he didn't want to whoop his ass. That can be said about most of the Jedi. No Jedi is willing to kill their enemies unless an accident happens(killing them by accident or bursting in rage)

Originally posted by Freedon Nadd
Stamina problems and holding back(well at least this for Anakin)

He didn't hold back, lol. He was fighting for his life there. And he only faced stamina problems because Anakin was pounding him so hard. I don't even know why the hell you're bring this up. It has nothing to do with Exar vs Sidious.

Originally posted by Freedon Nadd
Jedi Kun turning his master to what? Hot chicks and cookies?
I wasn't referring to Ulic's Trial scene when Kun comes to save his ass.
And even there; Vodo held back for a little only. And then was ready to defeat Kun.
Just because Vodo was holding back from killing Kun; it doesn't mean that he didn't want to whoop his ass. That can be said about most of the Jedi. No Jedi is willing to kill their enemies unless an accident happens(killing them by accident or bursting in rage)

Oh? You're referring to their sparring match? Vodo would've held back a lot more, especially considering sources have noted Kun was in a state of rage. Besides, it's been stated Exar only won due to Jar'Kai, otherwise Baas humiliated him in single combat.

Originally posted by Azronger
He didn't hold back, lol. He was fighting for his life there. And he only faced stamina problems because Anakin was pounding him so hard. I don't even know why the hell you're bring this up. It has nothing to do with Exar vs Sidious.

The book doesn't say so--IIRC.
Of course that happened. Because Anakin is a young man whereas Dooku is very old. Of course it stressed him to parry those lightsabre blows. Even his Force reserves were almost gone after that pitch battle IIRC.
And isn't the Essential Chronology written from an in-universe perspective?

Originally posted by MythLord
Oh? You're referring to their sparring match? Vodo would've held back a lot more, especially considering sources have noted Kun was in a state of rage. Besides, it's been stated Exar only won due to Jar'Kai, otherwise Baas humiliated him in single combat.

1. Kun being on rage--never happened with his master AFAIK. That only happened against Sylvar--who scratched his face with her claws. And he even had a sense of superiority towards his fellow Padawans.
2. So, you want to say that Vodo Siosk-Baas being a Weapons Battlemaster doesn't mean that he knew and used Jar'Kai as well?
3. Take into account that we do not know if Exar Kun was training as a Jedi since childhood like Anakin or Sidious. Heck, perhaps it was only his fifth year or less. Or maybe he was so 'brilliant' that he was a quick learner and adapted to situation instantly. Imo, given how he treats his fellow students would suggest that he was a 'newbie' Jedi(I think four or five years)
Look for example at the battle between Obi-Wan and Anakin. Anakin was bent on killing him whereas Obi-Wan was holding back. And Obi-Wan whopped his ass despite the fact of holding back.

Why is it everyone keeps bringing up the notion that so and so doesn't know X form of combat or whatever? <.<

When it's clearly told in the Jedi Path, that all Jedi are trained through all 7 forms? They master Form 1, then go to master 1 other form at the least of their choosing yet they are still trained through all the other forms...which yes, include Jar'Kai.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Why is it everyone keeps bringing up the notion that so and so doesn't know X form of combat or whatever? <.<

When it's clearly told in the Jedi Path, that all Jedi are trained through all 7 forms? They master Form 1, then go to master 1 other form at the least of their choosing yet they are still trained through all the other forms...which yes, include Jar'Kai.


Exactly.

You know guys...it helps when you know the little things about whoever you're trying to debate for or against, I'm not even that big on Force Users, but I would expect people that do to know even the little details if you're focusing on something. This actually would help any argument really.

Note: These were just general posts, not aimed at anyone directly.

Originally posted by Freedon Nadd
1. Kun being on rage--never happened with his master AFAIK. That only happened against Sylvar--who scratched his face with her claws. And he even had a sense of superiority towards his fellow Padawans.
2. So, you want to say that Vodo Siosk-Baas being a Weapons Battlemaster doesn't mean that he knew and used Jar'Kai as well?
3. Take into account that we do not know if Exar Kun was training as a Jedi since childhood like Anakin or Sidious. Heck, perhaps it was only his fifth year or less. Or maybe he was so 'brilliant' that he was a quick learner and adapted to situation instantly. Imo, given how he treats his fellow students would suggest that he was a 'newbie' Jedi(I think four or five years)
Look for example at the battle between Obi-Wan and Anakin. Anakin was bent on killing him whereas Obi-Wan was holding back. And Obi-Wan whopped his ass despite the fact of holding back.

1. Yes, because looking at the actual comic, he's enraged. And Fact File notes:
"Kun was almost defeated when he snatched up a fallen lightsabre and, giving into his anger, broke his Master's cane."
-- The Official Star Wars Fact File #14
It's an undeniable fact that he was enraged.

2. He would've known and used Jar'Kai, sure, but I'm noting that he clearly wasn't optimized in facing it, especially not when Exar was enraged. Both the comic and secondary sources note that Vodo humiliated Kun in the spar initially(I mean, he defeated him in a few blows) and Exar won due to being enraged and abusing Jar'Kai:

"Instead, Kun battled his Master, who was armed with his walking cane.Kun was almost defeated when he snatched up a fallen lightsabre and, giving into his anger, broke his Master's cane."
-- The Official Star Wars Fact File #14

And what makes it even worse for Kun is that he didn't win via skill, but by breaking Vodo's staff. Had Vodo used a lightsaber instead, Exar would've still eaten dirt.
Vodo's commentary further supports this:

"Two lightsabers... against my poor stick."

3. Anakin was in a far greater state of emotional conflict than Obi-Wan, and Kenobi had let go by all accounts. Anyways, what is your basis for Exar Kun being a "newbie Jedi"? I would like to hear logic, not fanfiction.