Originally posted by Kotor3
More experienced, skilled, and better feats? Like what?You guys killed me on this forum. Lets bring up Sidious records against the big dogs of his time:
1. Kills his master in his sleep. Great combat feat.
2. Loses to Mace one on one.
3. Stalemate between him and Yoda. (That because Yoda ran out of time before the clone boys would get there to assist Sidious)Everyone else Sidious defeated Kun wouldn't?
Sorry this is a very close battle that could definitely go either way.
Let me retype your post for you.
Sidious has mastered all 7 forms and here are some of his superior feats of skill, speed and power:
1. Even as of TPM, he was considered to be his master's equal but didn't want to take risk by confronting him on even ground. He has managed to deceive him for years. No one said it is a great combat feat but it's impressive in different categories.
2. Sidious is already considered to be way above the likes of people who have stalemated Windu. The fight was circumstantial and is still a great showing for Sidious. He blitzed 2 Jedi Council members immediately and potentially one of the top 5 duelists of the order's golden age right after that. Afterwards, Sidious was fighting so fast that it was as if he was coming in and out of existence. If Mace performed against Kun the same way he performed in ROTS, Kun would be humiliated.
3. You're right, he stalemated Yoda, the most powerful Jedi ever lived until Luke neared his potential.
4. Sidious utterly toyed with Maul and Savage. In sabers only, Maul by himself would be a challenging fight for Kun and with Savage, Kun would be overwhelmed. Sidious however, humiliated them in their duel.
5. Sidious once fought 5 Jedi and slain 3 of them with a single strike.
You tell me which of these feats can Kun replicate.
This isn't a stomp, but Kun doesn't stand a chance.
Originally posted by SiniousThe topic is one of combat. Sidious’s power is not in question. Circumstances and Sidious way of defeating his Master shows his preferred way of fighting. Also, if you are stating that Plagueis is more powerful than Kun, then you would have to prove that statement. If you cannot then this particular point of yours is irrelevant to this discussion.
Let me retype your post for you.Sidious has mastered all 7 forms and here are some of his superior feats of skill, speed and power:
1. Even as of TPM, he was considered to be his master's equal but didn't want to take risk by confronting him on even ground. He has managed to deceive him for years. No one said it is a great combat feat but it's impressive in different categories.
Originally posted by Sinious
2. Sidious is already considered to be way above the likes of people who have stalemated Windu. The fight was circumstantial and is still a great showing for Sidious. He blitzed 2 Jedi Council members immediately and potentially one of the top 5 duelists of the order's golden age right after that. Afterwards, Sidious was fighting so fast that it was as if he was coming in and out of existence. If Mace performed against Kun the same way he performed in ROTS, Kun would be humiliated.
As for the combat feat it is impressive for Sidious. However, as I stated before, Sidious has impressive showings to those who he is vastly superior to in the force. Those who he is not, his showings are not impressive.
As for Mace humiliating Kun, please prove that statement. Please prove how minimum experience Mace would humiliate an powerful combat experience Sith Lord like Kun.
Originally posted by SiniousUlic and Kun was a stalemate. Yoda ran out of time. Totally different situations.
3. You're right, he stalemated Yoda, the most powerful Jedi ever lived until Luke neared his potential.
Originally posted by SiniousYou love to make statements without any proof. Maul would be a challenging fight for Kun in sabers because:
4. Sidious utterly toyed with Maul and Savage. In sabers only, Maul by himself would be a challenging fight for Kun and with Savage, Kun would be overwhelmed. Sidious however, humiliated them in their duel.
Answer to all the questions is no.
What is a fact is that Kun would defeat Maul and Savage soundly.
Originally posted by Sinious
5. Sidious once fought 5 Jedi and slain 3 of them with a single strike.You tell me which of these feats can Kun replicate.
This isn't a stomp, but Kun doesn't stand a chance.
Guess what, if Yoda only had a set amount of time to defeat Kun and didn’t the fight could also be classified as a stalemate.
The topic is one of combat. Sidious’s power is not in question. Circumstances and Sidious way of defeating his Master shows his preferred way of fighting. Also, if you are stating that Plagueis is more powerful than Kun, then you would have to prove that statement. If you cannot then this particular point of yours is irrelevant to this discussion.
You're the one who brought it up, not me. 😬
And yes, Plagueis is more powerful than Kun but I won't go into that. This is about ROTS Sidious vs Kun and Kun is going down. 👆
I’m guessing you are referring to Dooku. So, Dooku and Windu are on the same level as of ROTS? According to my knowledge they are not. Mace is above Dooku. Did not GL state on Mace and Yoda could face Sidious one on one at this time?
While GL did say that, the novelization filled in the details and it was only due to the unusual Vaapad amp Windu received that he was able to keep up with Sidious. So it can easily be interpreted as "You either have to be Yoda or in Windu's shoes in ROTS to compete with Sidious". So the novel isn't really being retconned by a higher source and a single quote(that contradicts with everything in the lore) isnt trashing the entire novel.
As for the combat feat it is impressive for Sidious. However, as I stated before, Sidious has impressive showings to those who he is vastly superior to in the force. Those who he is not, his showings are not impressive.
WTF does that even mean? 😆
As for Mace humiliating Kun, please prove that statement. Please prove how minimum experience Mace would humiliate an powerful combat experience Sith Lord like Kun.
I said Mace would humiliate Kun if he performed as good as he did in ROTS with a one time amp he got. In normal circumstances, Kun would defeat Mace imo.
Ulic and Kun was a stalemate. Yoda ran out of time. Totally different situations.
The worst way of looking at it for Sidious is calling it a stalemate but since even a stalemate with Yoda is greater than anything Kun has done, its enough. Kun has nothing comparable since Yoda would trash Ulic.
You love to make statements without any proof. Maul would be a challenging fight for Kun in sabers because:
• They are close in force strength and power?
• You say so.
• Maul has as much experience as Kun does with it comes to fighting Jedi and Sith?Answer to all the questions is no.
What is a fact is that Kun would defeat Maul and Savage soundly.
Actually, all my statements are supported by both canon and legends sources while you don't even present any arguments and just ignore what I'm saying.
I didnt say they are close in the force. I said, in a lightsabers only fight(where force powers are not used), Maul would be a challenge for Kun and with Savage, Kun would lose.
He would defeat them in an all out fight, not in sabers. 👆
Yes impressive. Impressive showings for those he is vastly superior to. Those Jedi who were not even on the same level as Obi wan and Anakin. Whether it is one, two or three strikes, I do believe Kun can defeat every opponent that Sidious as of ROTS has defeated.Guess what, if Yoda only had a set amount of time to defeat Kun and didn’t the fight could also be classified as a stalemate.
No, Kun can't toy with the Zabrak brothers the way Sidious did. Kun can't stalemate Yoda(Yoda's retreat is not caused by him having limited time, Yoda fell down and Sidious was in an advantageous position. Yoda realized he can't win and left). Kun can't blitz Jedi Council members while fighting Mace Windu. Should I go on?
And for me to accept that Kun can actually replicate Sidious' feats, you're gonna have to give me some of his own accomplishments that can be compared to the feats I've listed. So far, you've given none.
@Sinious
I am not going to repeat everything Nai brought up. Its obvious you do not accept most of them as proving Kun's ability to win. There is really nothing more to bring up that he hasn't already. All of your other statements I will leave alone.
Anyway let us make this simple.
You stated Kun doesn't really have a chance. That is fine you are entitled to you own opinion. So tell me. Where do you place Kun in terms of the PT era? Where would he rank among the top force users of that era?
Originally posted by Kotor3
@Sinious
I am not going to repeat everything Nai brought up. Its obvious you do not accept most of them as proving Kun's ability to win. There is really nothing more to bring up that he hasn't already. All of your other statements I will leave alone.
Conceding is a wise choice in this case. 👆
Anyway let us make this simple.You stated Kun doesn't really have a chance. That is fine you are entitled to you own opinion. So tell me. Where do you place Kun in terms of the PT era? Where would he rank among the top force users of that era?
From PT/OT, he is above everyone except for Plagueis, Sidious and Yoda imo. (And Talzin I guess)
Originally posted by SiniousTake it as a conceding if you wish. I am just not interested in repeating feats that have been repeated a thousand times on this forum.
Conceding is a wise choice in this case. 👆From PT/OT, he is above everyone except for Plagueis, Sidious and Yoda imo. (And Talzin I guess)
Since you have Kun above Mace, in terms of Kun's skill with a blade, force powers plus amulet and combat experience, please explain to me how you can say that Kun doesn't have a chance in this battle?
Yeah, unless you meant Kun > Mace overall because of skill, power, amulets and experience (he has no experience edge, lol), then I don't see what I failed to comprehend. Yes, I'm aware that it's apparently Sinious' opinion, I'm just saying that there's no skill edge.
Your question was how he couldn't have a chance in this battle? Maybe because Mace's battle with Palpaine was circumstantial and isn't indicative of the fact that Mace would beat Palpatine on neutral ground with neutral circumstances? Even if Kun > regular Mace, that doesn't have any relevance to an amped Mace vs Sidious, a fight which Palpatine arguably threw.