For Blacks Americans, US about as dangerous as Rwanda

Raw Story, Interview with Nate Silver

Originally posted by Nate Silver
For black and white americans, the difference between life and death is literally worlds apart. Although we may know this on some level, Nate Silver, the founder and editor in chief of FiveThirtyEight, has the startling statistics that demonstrate this reality.

As he explained to me on the latest episode of The Katie Halper Show, “If you’re a white person your chance of being murdered every year is 2.5 out of 10,000… If you’re a black person it’s 19.4, so almost eight times higher.”

To put this into context, Silver explained, the murder rate for white Americans is similar to the murder rate for people living in Finland, Chile or Israel. The murder rate for black Americans, on the other hand, is similar to the rate found “in developing countries that are war zones even, like Myanmar, or Rwanda, Mexico, Brazil, Nigeria, places that have vast disorder. To me that stat was so striking that I thought this was a case where even if you kinda zoomed out, that was a data point that helped to inform the discussion.”

Silver also discussed police brutality.

So I’m an editor now as well as a writer so we think when a story occurs is this a quote unquote “random act of violence” or is this representative of some broader trend and I think these stories about police brutality, it’s uncovering things that have been going on for a long time and that are very common experiences…

Now that we do have video cameras everywhere it’s not a coincidence that all of a sudden now that we have means to record these things all of a sudden these things crop up all the time.

Listen to the whole interview with Silver below, as well as interviews with Chris Cobb, who helped get New York City to acknowledge the site of a former slave market on Wall Street and mark it with a plaque, Desiree Burch, the black solo performer from California, who now lives in England, where she feels way safer walking around and or encountering the sees police, and political comedian Ted Alexandro, who talks about police brutality in his standup, and said, to Silver, “you said [the murder rate for black Americans is] more in keeping with places that have ‘vast disorder.’ Maybe vast disorder is the right term for the experience of black folks living here in the United States. That is their reality. So, when you said those words it kind of struck me.”

There's the whole interview on the site too, and of course, while most of us realized things were much more dangerous for black Americans, I don't think most of us realized by how much.

The rise of video cameras and recordings to demonstrate unequal treatment going on has been a big boon to recognizing the problems, and hopefully means more will be done about them.

i could be wrong but it sounds to me like you're conflating two separate issues: high murder rates in black neighborhoods and police brutality. high murder rates in black neighborhoods are mostly due to gang violence and things like that, not police shootings.

Originally posted by red g jacks
i could be wrong but it sounds to me like you're conflating two separate issues: high murder rates in black neighborhoods and police brutality. high murder rates in black neighborhoods are mostly due to gang violence and things like that, not police shootings.

It's total killings, yes, but they're related.

One of the big problems is, if you can't trust the police, and many black communities can't, then who protects you from the gangs?

In places where police harass black people and are more likely to view them as threats/escalate violence against them in ways they don't for whites, the people are caught between frying pan and fire. And that's what give you higher rates of killings.

But aren't black people..the biggest killers of black people in America? No other race kills more blacks then blacks.

Originally posted by Surtur
But aren't black people..the biggest killers of black people in America? No other race kills more blacks then blacks.

Yea, lol. What a stupid article to convey some sort of racism.

I'm not saying racism doesn't exist here, it just seems that..well, you tend to see some people who act like the biggest problems the community faces do not come from within the community.

So I think when people talk about "putting things in context" when the dude is talking about how you are a lot more likely to be killed if black..why not point out the rest, which is it is most likely a member of the same race who will be killing you?

The problem is I'm white..I can't talk about this. Or..well, I can, but it means something different if it comes from a person within the community.

Originally posted by Surtur
I'm not saying racism doesn't exist here, it just seems that..well, you tend to see some people who act like the biggest problems the community faces do not come from within the community.

This was intended to compare white people to black people and say that blacks live a more dangerous life than Rwanda due to whites/cops.

When in fact, blacks kill each other by the droves.

Originally posted by Q99
One of the big problems is, if you can't trust the police, and many black communities can't, then who protects you from the gangs?

I posted the polling on this, before, that matched what you're saying, here.

Blacks don't trust the police, education, and government compared to whites and other race demographics. I don't feel like putting in the work to find that research but it is there.

Edit - Yes, "another black man is a black man's worst enemy in America." That's the saying.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I posted the polling on this, before, that matched what you're saying, here.

Blacks don't trust the police, education, and government compared to whites and other race demographics. I don't feel like putting in the work to find that research but it is there.

Edit - Yes, "another black man is a black man's worst enemy in America." That's the saying.

Black people and black communities also have good reason to not trust the police, education system and the government, because they get short changed on all of these as compared to White Americans.

Originally posted by Surtur
But aren't black people..the biggest killers of black people in America? No other race kills more blacks then blacks.

Compare and contrast the Hispanic population in America with the black population.

SES?

Income?

Health?

Crime Rates?

Education rates?

etc.

I'm interested to see where they are similar and where they are different. That might be relevant to this thread and could help make the points more solid.

Originally posted by Q99
It's total killings, yes, but they're related.

One of the big problems is, if you can't trust the police, and many black communities can't, then who protects you from the gangs?

In places where police harass black people and are more likely to view them as threats/escalate violence against them in ways they don't for whites, the people are caught between frying pan and fire. And that's what give you higher rates of killings.

i mean i know that maybe historically the crips started out of a mistrust for the police and things like that

but modern day gangs act more like cartels geared for profit. and in some cases they blur racial lines so long as the members are loyal to the gang itself

i don't think it's the fact that victims of gang violence are scared of the cops that they don't call the police

in many cases victims of gang violence are other competing gangsters, and in cases where innocent people are killed but won't snitch it's more because they doubt the police can protect them from the gangs

and that is similar to what you were saying but not quite the same... putting cameras on police won't make them any more capable of protecting you from a gang

the only way to address gang violence is to address the underlying incentives to join gangs

and maybe some of that work is to be done in the police department, but i'd say the majority of it is outside their scope of influence.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Compare and contrast the Hispanic population in America with the black population.

SES?

Income?

Health?

Crime Rates?

Education rates?

etc.

I'm interested to see where they are similar and where they are different. That might be relevant to this thread and could help make the points more solid.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Black people and black communities also have good reason to not trust the police, education system and the government, because they get short changed on all of these as compared to White Americans.

this all reminds me of a news piece i saw a while back from my hometown.. just a little friendly public service announcement to the black community that not all cops are bad
YouTube video
inspirational words @ 3:26
"and all we have to do is keep our hand in his hand, and he will always provide, and just know: that just because you see uniform, we are here for you" cry

Originally posted by Q99
It's total killings, yes, but they're related.

One of the big problems is, if you can't trust the police, and many black communities can't, then who protects you from the gangs?

In places where police harass black people and are more likely to view them as threats/escalate violence against them in ways they don't for whites, the people are caught between frying pan and fire. And that's what give you higher rates of killings.

That's not really the case at all. A lot of the reason why people in our communities don't call the police isn't due to fear of Police violence, it's due to fear of reprisals by the people they're calling the Police on and the Police not being able to protect them from street retaliation (i.e., snitches get stitches/"Stop Snitchin"😉. Most of the violence comes from drug trafficking/turf violence, gang violence, and theft. Police violence is part of the pie, but it's a much smaller part. Like maybe 20% max being generous. This is a very faulty narrative to push man.

Originally posted by MF DELPH
That's not really the case at all. A lot of the reason why people in our communities don't call the police isn't due to fear of Police violence, it's due to fear of reprisals by the people they're calling the Police on and the Police not being able to protect them from street retaliation (i.e., snitches get stitches/"Stop Snitchin"😉. Most of the violence comes from drug trafficking/turf violence, gang violence, and theft. Police violence is part of the pie, but it's a much smaller part. Like maybe 20% max being generous. This is a very faulty narrative to push man.

20%? That's a mind bogglingly large number. If it was 1% it would be ridiculously much to much.

Lets remember that allegedly police are there to serve and protect...

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Because of poverty and poor public self-image that breeds crime among other things.

It doesn't change the fact the biggest killer of blacks is blacks and yet they will only riot when a white guy kills a black man. They won't even wait until the autopsy reports, etc. are out to know whether or not a killing was justified, the automatic assumption is the person must of been innocent because they were black and the cop was white.

Also, you just proved a good point because people always want to point the finger elsewhere whenever these problems are brought up. Am I saying your reasoning is not a factor? No, but I'm saying it usually comes down to pointing the finger at others for the problems within the community.

Originally posted by Surtur
It doesn't change the fact the biggest killer of blacks is blacks and yet they will only riot when a white guy kills a black man.

Originally posted by Surtur
It doesn't change the fact the biggest killer of blacks is blacks and yet they will only riot when a white guy kills a black man.

Also, you just proved a good point because people always want to point the finger elsewhere whenever these problems are brought up.

People will riot if a person charged with protection of citizens kills a citizen in what appears to be unjust circumstances and without any official consequences due to their actions.

Originally posted by Bardock42
People will riot if a person charged with protection of citizens kills a citizen in what appears to be unjust circumstances and without any official consequences due to their actions.

So then why do I not see riots every day in Chicago over the black kids killed by black gang members who never face consequences?