For Blacks Americans, US about as dangerous as Rwanda

Originally posted by Surtur
So then why do I not see riots every day in Chicago over the black kids killed by black gang members who never face consequences?

Are the gang members charged by the government with protecting the black kids they kill? Do the authorities turn a blind eye and do not prosecute the gang members if they can take a hold of them?

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I'm not arguing against a statistic, I'm simply explaining why that statistic is the way it is, and it isn't because blacks are inherently more violent. I wish people who bring up the black murder rate would just man up and admit that that's what they're trying to say.

I disagree, it's not about trying to say blacks are inherently more violent then others. Looking at the various atrocities committed in history show this to be flat out untrue.

But my problem is whenever this is mentioned and people explain why..the explanations always contain pointing fingers at others and *nothing else*.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Are the gang members charged by the government with protecting the black kids they kill? Do the authorities turn a blind eye and do not prosecute the gang members if they can take a hold of them?

So it is not the jobs of the gangs to protect people so that means they shouldn't riot over the countless deaths of children(young ass children, not "kids" like Michael Brown who are 300 lb motherf*ckers 18 years of age) that never get solved, where nobody get punished, and the COMMUNITY ITSELF keeps quiet and protects them.

That isn't worthy of a riot? Especially when it happens so much more often then white cops killing black men?

Originally posted by Bardock42
People will riot if a person charged with protection of citizens kills a citizen in what appears to be unjust circumstances and without any official consequences due to their actions.

As Martin Luthor King Jr. put it, 'A riot is the voice of the voiceless.'

If people feel they have no other way heard, they will riot to draw as much attention as possible, and hope that the problem will be caught by the response and focus drawn to the riot too.

MF DELPH

That's not really the case at all. A lot of the reason why people in our communities don't call the police isn't due to fear of Police violence, it's due to fear of reprisals by the people they're calling the Police on and the Police not being able to protect them from street retaliation (i.e., snitches get stitches/"Stop Snitchin"😉. Most of the violence comes from drug trafficking/turf violence, gang violence, and theft. Police violence is part of the pie, but it's a much smaller part. Like maybe 20% max being generous. This is a very faulty narrative to push man.

Like Bardock said, that's a huuuuge number, and enough to inspire much distrust.

If a big chunk of your communities' deaths came from your 'protectors,' you wouldn't turn to them for protection. You'd thus have to worry about being preyed upon by the protectors, and you'd be more vulnerable to other crime.

And as recent events have shown, police respond very disproportionately to black suspects. Choking a guy out (who was saying 'I can't breath'😉 for... stealing cigarettes. Man-handling a teenage girl at a pool party, then pulling a gun on two other kids (the accusation? Being in a pool without a guest pass!... which, btw, they were innocent of). A black suspect who literally died from the rough ride back to the police station (due to no seatbelt, and the police purposefully making it rough, a practice the particular department is *well known* for).

Even when it's not fatal, it gives them a very good reason not to trust police.

And that drives up the deaths from other criminals, because they don't have the protection white people do as a result.

Originally posted by Surtur
I disagree, it's not about trying to say blacks are inherently more violent then others. Looking at the various atrocities committed in history show this to be flat out untrue.

But my problem is whenever this is mentioned and people explain why..the explanations always contain pointing fingers at others and *nothing else*.

And if we do point the finger at blacks, what then? If we reduce that position, it eventually comes down to some kind of indictment of blacks as a race.

But then if it is about drawing attention then why not draw attention to all the black on black crimes via riots?

What about them?

The finger is being pointed at blacks constantly. There's no shortage of that. The justice system of the US is based on pointing fingers at black people. The other side though is much less discussed and accepted.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I think it's a structural problem with American society. We've basically inherited a system that was built on the subjugation of blacks and not enough has been done to change that.

And if we do point the finger at blacks, what then? If we reduce that position, it eventually comes down to some kind of indictment of blacks as a race.

As to what do we do if we point the finger at blacks..well, we take solace in the fact we at least aren't putting our fingers in our ears and pretending the problem only comes externally.

Then we start trying to fix it: by both trying to combat racism in the country AND trying to fix the way the black community in general deals with each other.

Originally posted by Bardock42
The finger is being pointed at blacks constantly. There's no shortage of that. The justice system of the US is based on pointing fingers at black people. The other side though is much less discussed and accepted.

But like I said, the finger is pointed by everyone but the ones who matter. The finger doesn't get pointed enough by the community in question, which is my problem.

This is why I have respect for a guy like "Tommy Sotomayor". Even if you don't like him, he recognizes that while racism exists, the community itself also needs to take responsibility for certain things.

Originally posted by Bardock42
20%? That's a mind bogglingly large number. If it was 1% it would be ridiculously much to much.

Lets remember that allegedly police are there to serve and protect...

I said 20% max being generous, and it's likely, empirically, far lower than that. I don't live in fear of the Oakland PD since I'm a law abiding employed citizen who has very little, if any, interaction with the Police, but I do keep my eyes peeled in case someone is trying to catch me slippin at an ATM or getting in and out of my car in certain areas here in Oakland, and it's not because I'm "driving (or banking) while black". I've been at gunpoint from a member of my own demographic more times than I have by law enforcement, which was only once when I was 13 years old and I allegedly fit the description (black male, blue shirt, blue jeans, age 21-28) of another man who had just slashed up his ex. I've been mugged 4 times and had my apartment burglarized twice.

Originally posted by MF DELPH
I said 20% max being generous, and it's likely, empirically, far lower than that. I don't live in fear of the Oakland PD since I'm a law abiding employed citizen who has very little, if any, interaction with the Police, but I do keep my eyes peeled in case someone is trying to catch me slippin at an ATM or getting in and out of my car in certain areas here in Oakland, and it's not because I'm "driving (or banking) while black". I've been at gunpoint from a member of my own demographic more times than I have by law enforcement, which was only once when I was 13 years old and I allegedly fit the description (black male, blue shirt, blue jeans, age 21-28) of another man who had just slashed up his ex. I've been mugged 4 times and had my apartment burglarized twice.

The issue is that there shouldn't even be a reasonable argument to be made whether you are more afraid of the police or criminals. That this is something we discuss is absurd, and shows the extreme issue there is in the US.

they're just going to basically ignore anything you say that doesn't feed into their narrative of cops vs black people cause lately that's the big story

Originally posted by Q99
As Martin Luthor King Jr. put it, 'A riot is the voice of the voiceless.'

If people feel they have no other way heard, they will riot to draw as much attention as possible, and hope that the problem will be caught by the response and focus drawn to the riot too.

Like Bardock said, that's a huuuuge number, and enough to inspire much distrust.

If a big chunk of your communities' deaths came from your 'protectors,' you wouldn't turn to them for protection. You'd thus have to worry about being preyed upon by the protectors, and you'd be more vulnerable to other crime.

And as recent events have shown, police respond very disproportionately to black suspects. Choking a guy out (who was saying 'I can't breath'😉 for... stealing cigarettes. Man-handling a teenage girl at a pool party, then pulling a gun on two other kids (the accusation? Being in a pool without a guest pass!... which, btw, they were innocent of). A black suspect who literally died from the rough ride back to the police station (due to no seatbelt, and the police purposefully making it rough, a practice the particular department is *well known* for).

Even when it's not fatal, it gives them a very good reason not to trust police.

And that drives up the deaths from other criminals, because they don't have the protection white people do as a result.

You're really gonna run with that generous max estimation? Do I need to go and get actual stats? It really seems like you guys are setting up a tent on really flimsy ground. The issue isn't that police brutality doesn't exist, it's that it doesn't account for nearly a high enough volume of the body count you seem to be thinking that statistic portrays, which actually IMO as a black man does the matter a disservice as it moves the goal post away from the community issues which need to be addressed. I lost one of my close friends from high school out here in March to gun violence in West Oakland and there were no marches or hashtags for Chyemil, she was just a mother of 3 lost to inner city violence because she wasn't part of this narrative being pushed. The problem is a lot bigger than just Police Brutality.

Originally posted by red g jacks
they're just going to basically ignore anything you say that doesn't feed into their narrative of cops vs black people cause lately that's the big story

This is just a mentality that needs to change because cops have done stuff out of line in the past, yes even killed when not warranted. But is "cops kill innocent black people" the worst thing happening to the community?

Also yes someone was 100% right: a lot of fingers do get pointed at the black community. It's just usually none of those fingers tend to be black.

Or if one of those fingers is black..then a lot of black people will turn on such a person for speaking about that kind of truth, but have no issue when speaking about other kinds of truth(like police brutality).

That is my issue, police brutality is also an issue and you do not see all white people afraid to call the cops out and discuss it. You don't see them all stigmatizing the white folk who say cops are out of line(oh some do, but it doesn't stop A LOT of people from speaking out). Slavery would of never ended if it was only black people upset over it. Why? Because it has to be the people acting that way who recognize the issue.

it's kind of weird to me cause it's like i have to believe that liberals do care and mean well in trying to push this police brutality issue... but they seem oblivious to ways in which they actually fan the flames and make the situation even worse through their dedicated propaganda campaigns. you guys think you're doing a good thing telling black people they shouldn't trust the police? do you see how that might just escalate things further?

Originally posted by Bardock42
The issue is that there shouldn't even be a reasonable argument to be made whether you are more afraid of the police or criminals. That this is something we discuss is absurd, and shows the extreme issue there is in the US.

The reason it is discussed is since a significant portion of my demographic lives in poverty, and a significant subset of that portion that lives in poverty resorts to crime in their areas of residence to generate income, these areas have an increased Police presence, and that increased Police presence entails an increase in Police interaction.

Since I don't operate in those environments, or engage in those activities, I have no reason to live in fear of the Police, while I do, however, have to worry about being victimized by this same subset of my demographic whose activity increases the presence of the Police in my city.

Originally posted by Surtur
I'm not saying racism doesn't exist here, it just seems that..well, you tend to see some people who act like the biggest problems the community faces do not come from within the community.

So I think when people talk about "putting things in context" when the dude is talking about how you are a lot more likely to be killed if black..why not point out the rest, which is it is most likely a member of the same race who will be killing you?

The problem is I'm white..I can't talk about this. Or..well, I can, but it means something different if it comes from a person within the community.

Originally posted by red g jacks
it's kind of weird to me cause it's like i have to believe that liberals do care and mean well in trying to push this police brutality issue... but they seem oblivious to ways in which they actually fan the flames and make the situation even worse through their dedicated propaganda campaigns. you guys think you're doing a good thing telling black people they shouldn't trust the police? do you see how that might just escalate things further?

What these campaigns try to do is to get police to change it's views and methods. Maybe it does increase distrusts, though i find that unlikely, the distrust exists in these commiunities, and it is at least partly warranted because of the police. We can't tell gang members to change (at least not directly, they are not employed by us, but we do try to get them to change by incarcerating them in large numbers) but we can tell police to change.

Originally posted by Bardock42
What these campaigns try to do is to get police to change it's views and methods. Maybe it does increase distrusts, though i find that unlikely, the distrust exists in these commiunities, and it is at least partly warranted because of the police. We can't tell gang members to change (at least not directly, they are not employed by us, but we do try to get them to change by incarcerating them in large numbers) but we can tell police to change.

i'm not saying police don't need reform. i'm saying that this method of reforming the police is incredibly clumsy and counterproductive. imo anyway