Goku vs Superman Death Battle-Discuss

Iron man has flown from the earth to the Sun in 2 panels. Combat speed is what is needed here, not space flight. Terrax is a light speedster if we took the approach you all are taking.

Originally posted by cdtm
And now that RW can't lowball for a bit:

I challenge anyone who takes Goku's side to prove his best speed feat.

No "scaling" bullshit, no power levels, I want feats!

So lightspeed combat speed isn't too fast for Goku's God mode to keep up with, or at least react to some stuff.

That's with no scaling. I'm sure you realize where scaling leaves that.

Originally posted by One Big Mob
He came out of nowhere to stop Dyspo who was trying to eliminate Hit when Dyspo was above lightspeed, in Twink God mode.
He was also timing the lightspeed Dyspo and was able to transform to blue in an instant and attack before Dyspo reached him.
With no flight aiding his speed.

So lightspeed combat speed isn't too fast for Goku's God mode to keep up with, or at least react to some stuff.

That's with no scaling. I'm sure you realize where scaling leaves that.

Thanks for the response. 👆

The trouble with using Dypso as a benchmark, is they established he was predictable, and implied limited maneuverability with the Freeza cage. (Seriously, Dypso can't even move backwards?)

And the fact Gohan, who it is established isn't far above lightspeed by virtue of Dypso being promoted as a big deal by Dragon Ball standards, also proves his overall movements, e.g. short range combat and such, aren't up to par with his burst/sprint speed.

Just the same, I'll grant that Goku would certainly need to PERCIEVE speeds above his own level, so have a chance of predicting Dypso's movements and intercepting him.

The question remains, can he deal with someone who is near/above lightspeed fast in every way possible? (Basically, someone who can sway his damned waist backwards if in a cage..)

Originally posted by carver9
Iron man has flown from the earth to the Sun in 2 panels. Combat speed is what is needed here, not space flight. Terrax is a light speedster if we took the approach you all are taking.

exactly. 👆

Originally posted by cdtm
Thanks for the response. 👆

The trouble with using Dypso as a benchmark, is they established he was predictable, and implied limited maneuverability with the Freeza cage. (Seriously, Dypso can't even move backwards?)

And the fact Gohan, who it is established isn't far above lightspeed by virtue of Dypso being promoted as a big deal by Dragon Ball standards, also proves his overall movements, e.g. short range combat and such, aren't up to par with his burst/sprint speed.

Just the same, I'll grant that Goku would certainly need to PERCIEVE speeds above his own level, so have a chance of predicting Dypso's movements and intercepting him.

The question remains, can he deal with someone who is near/above lightspeed fast in every way possible? (Basically, someone who can sway his damned waist backwards if in a cage..)

And his burst sprint speed is how he fights. It is his combat speed. He's dodging shit and creating angles and attacking. We also saw him dancing around Hit in a circle for an extended time. And when he wanted to eliminate Hit which you'd assume he'd use a lot of speed for, Goku came out of nowhere and stopped the attack.

And Goku perceiving these attacks would be relevant as well. Even if you don't want to put Goku on lightspeed, him reacting to a speed above lightspeed and reacting and transforming without getting hit in that exchange isn't exactly a bad thing in a fight.

Especially when I've seen you say DB characters have to power up or they instantly get annihilated by Superman. A character who you'd have a time proving he fought at above lightspeed with no needed acceleration.
And this was when Goku had no flight to speed him up.

Combat speed is where DB shines. Saying their combat speed is not up to par is crazy talk.

Originally posted by One Big Mob
Dyspo was moving backwards against Gohan though and parrying and blocking a bunch of attacks. The problem is he couldn't move around Gohan and Gohan was fast enough to catch him retreating. All they could do was move forward and backwards and Gohan was apparently fast enough to catch whatever Dyspo could do for speed in that cage. Completely different than how Goku fought him. Not only that but "swaying your waist backwards" isn't going to help much if the opponent is shooting forward while attacking. Maybe if their feet were planted would you have a point. Great way to get bulldozed though.

And his burst sprint speed is how he fights. It is his combat speed. He's dodging shit and creating angles and attacking. We also saw him dancing around Hit in a circle for an extended time. And when he wanted to eliminate Hit which you'd assume he'd use a lot of speed for, Goku came out of nowhere and stopped the attack.

And Goku perceiving these attacks would be relevant as well. Even if you don't want to put Goku on lightspeed, him reacting to a speed above lightspeed and reacting and transforming without getting hit in that exchange isn't exactly a bad thing in a fight.

Especially when I've seen you say DB characters have to power up or they instantly get annihilated by Superman. A character who you'd have a time proving he fought at above lightspeed with no needed acceleration.
And this was when Goku had no flight to speed him up.

Good to have you back. I'd rather lose against you then pull my hair out trying to win against those clowns. 👆

I'll respond pretty soon.

Originally posted by Damborgson
Beerus alone? Not with Whis?

And CTDM is asking for non scaling feats. Nit that I disagree that Goku is on par with Beerus mind you.

Whiss was on a planet, on the other side of the universe, trying to convince the population to make a feast for Beerus. Beerus got tired of waiting, so he flew across "countless galaxies" to reach the planet Whiss was on. In less than two minutes, presumably in just a few seconds.

Also, Goku as a child outran solar flare to grab a pair of sunglasses. That's lightspeed+ reaction/combat speed. Again, he literally moves faster than time itself, when fighting Hit.

Goku now >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Goku then

http://vsbattles.wikia.com/wiki/Thread:617209?useskin=oasis

Lmao, so now Superman, Captain Marvel, and Overman are all capable of moving across the universe in one second??? Get real, dude.

Even going by that post itself, you're assuming that the missiles can move at that speed, simply because they can destroy the multiverse. That makes no sense whatsoever. The missiles speed was no indicated whatsoever, lmfao.

Whoever made that post is a retard, just like anyone that feels a sense of accomplishment from sharing it.

Says the person who thinks grabbing glasses before a solar flare hits requires outracing light, instead of simply reacting to Ten's techique before it went off.

They also destroyed those reality blitzing missiles.

That's a feat of destroying missiles that can destroy reality. Nothing more.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
That's a feat of destroying missiles that can destroy reality. Nothing more.

Ohh, no! Hell no! You people have been saying for days that deflecting a death ball is akin to tanking it, you don't GET to try and downplay for the other side.

By your own arguments (Everyone supporting deflect = tank), they tanked multiversal destroying powers.

The damned missiles are exploding as they pass through them, even. There is NO way you can argue against what the pictures show, without being disingenuous.

Missiles =/= Energy constructs, you dullard. The entire point of that debate is that the energy balls are essentially localized explosions, whereas a bomb or missile is a bunch of chemicals, reactants, etc. that react when triggered.

Completely different from energy attacks, lmao.

Also, the missiles fell apart, they didn't explode. If they exploded, all of reality would have been destroyed, IOW's. Lmao, you're so pitiful of a troll these days, that it's literally sad.

Was this the best you've got? Back to ignore for you it is.

Bull.

You're arguing localized destruction, something you regularly argue against when it happens to your side.

Oh lookie here, Jiren didn't destroy the universe. He didn't even destroy a planet. And Goku got hurt. Guess this proves Jiren < planet busting!

Try again, hypocrite.

They're called reality blitzing missiles, in the comic itself. The scans show one of them flying right through an exploding warhead.

But this is comic book Superman, where the rules of PIS apply, while EVERY feat for Dragon Ball counts, no matter how outrageous.

Hypocrite.

Originally posted by cdtm
http://vsbattles.wikia.com/wiki/Thread:617209?useskin=oasis

This guy realizes they were in the bleedspace and even if they weren't, the Ultimate Thule was transporting them across universes instantaneously in that story, right? "Reality blitzing sounds fast"
Lol. Plus time was stopped for Superman and the gang at the time, or more accurately, time was stopped for Lois. A heartbeat was meaningless

Not only that, but the implications with all missiles in comics, and in real life is that they release nowhere near their payload as it didn't actually explode the contents to create the reaction, but rather, other things blew up like the electronics or something. The chemical reaction didn't occur. We've seen it a million times in fiction where a city ending nuke is taken out too early and causes nowhere near a city ending explosion.

Had those bombs sterilized the universe, the implication is they were going to be widespread in radius, enough to encompass an entire universe. Merely exploding in a 40 foot or so radius does not speak to full potential. We also don't know what they blasted, as they weren't special. Had they been anti matter or entropy you could make a case that that energy was released, but they seem to be just massive missiles that need to release all their energy to be effective.

Are we left to believe that that missile exploding in a universe would have taken out a universe? It doesn't seem like it would localize itself in a say planetary level radius and shatter a universe without spreading out more. And localizing itself in an even smaller area of effect speaks less about its effectiveness.

A blast on the other hand, doesn't need a chemical reaction to be effective. It can contain the power of a nuke's full explosion in the size of a marble. We just saw Toppo thumb a marble through a planet destroying energy ball for example. Much, much different than nukes.

Hey, how come you have Darksaint on ignore? 🙁

Good call on time freezing. It's uncertain whether that applies outside of Earth/Earth's universe, though. It COULD, as powerful as Monitors are.

Anyways, you're applying real world physics to Monitor-tech. Or hell, to Morrison fiction. Mr. "Unravel a universe by answering a riddle", Morrison.

Comics tend to be pretty literal at the best of times, due to the ignorance of writers. For all we know they operate off pure bleed, which "can't bottle, contained, ect.." (And yet WAS contained, against the stories insistance, by big blue's mouth.)

At the end of the day, we're still talking collateral damage here. Why is your argument different then the one what his face was making about pushing back on planet busters, or knocking aside balls of energy, before they exploded?

Originally posted by cdtm
Hey, how come you have Darksaint on ignore? 🙁

Good call on time freezing. It's uncertain whether that applies outside of Earth/Earth's universe, though. It COULD, as powerful as Monitors are.

Anyways, you're applying real world physics to Monitor-tech. Or hell, to Morrison fiction. Mr. "Unravel a universe by answering a riddle", Morrison.

Comics tend to be pretty literal at the best of times, due to the ignorance of writers. For all we know they operate off pure bleed, which "can't bottle, contained, ect.." (And yet WAS contained, against the stories insistance, by big blue's mouth.)

At the end of the day, we're still talking collateral damage here. Why is your argument different then the one what his face was making about pushing back on planet busters, or knocking aside balls of energy, before they exploded?

Real world and comics. The only time missiles have shot their whole payload was when they went off early when destroyed. I don't see universe destroying missiles as only having a radius of 40 ish feet for example. Especially a missile that size. Which says them blowing it up earlier didn't set off the reaction needed for it to reach its full potential.

Because collateral damage is kind of important in a missile meant to sterilize a universe. It needs to blow up in an explosion larger than a garage. Missiles aren't focused blasts like an energy attack. They go outwards with a kaboom and a kablammo.
That plus everything we have seen with destroying missiles early.

We saw what Morrison's intent was in that series. We saw him explain everything to a detail needed to understand. Him putting more emphasis on a 70 mile ship having to be stopped so it doesn't hit a planet full of people says he didn't think much of missiles being destroyed early, and neither should we. Especially 3 universe destroying missiles being set off in a 100 to 200 foot radius that were intended to enter the universes and detonate.

Had the missiles been called anti matter or entropy missiles, we could put more focus on their small explosion size. As it is, the danger of the missiles seemed to rely solely on explosion size so it could spread out over a universe.

Allright.

Before proceeding, I want to verify whether this standard applies only to missiles..

An easy example is Odin or Galactus. Do we say nothing less then galaxy busting harms them, based on the fact they decimated galaxies?

Or do we look at fights like In Betweener or Giffen's Thanos as proof that they operate at a far lower level on average, and can be hurt by someone who can never bust a galaxy?

You also didn't answer what Goku pushing against Beerus's energy ball signifies. Is it a universal tank? Or resisting an undetonated potential universe buster?