DCnu Batman Vs Luke Cage...

Originally posted by Stoic
That's a great and fine, but at the same time, let's not pretend that
Batman can't be hurt, or taken out by an environmental attack. Cage
could actually win this. Batman isn't taking a strong hit to the body from
Cage. I think Bruce would win more times than not, but it would be due
to his gadgets and superior skill more times than not.

Agreed. Although, if you're thinking of the thunderclap, Cage has only done it once, and it didn't even KO Victoria.

Let's see, who has DCnU Batman survived a hit from?

How about a maddened WW? Without his armour, and wounded, no less!

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Endurance/Stamina/batman35-brucewaynevsgodofwar3.jpg

She was out to kill him. Slamming him through concrete etc, having him fall from a pretty good height. Once again, this is without his armour.

With it? Well, I wager he can tank a fair bit. I'm sure you guys can find/have seen examples.

I did find this, though. Here he is punching Shazam. Sure, Shazam isn't THAT hurt - but he still feels it. P

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Endurance/Body%20Armor/robinrisesomega-batmanpunchshazam2.jpg

Edit: I just love Billy's face, lol.

Wayne raped the "Blue Hulk" that actually did well vs. Superman... he took hits from him, too.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Then...why not guard against the second strike? You've shown that Cage has some speed reactions - and you're asserting that nerve strikes won't work. So BP gets the drop on him, and hits him the first time. OK. Whydid he not 'easily'guard against being dropped to his knees? Or does Cage just not possess the reactions after all? Because the only other explanation is, he WANTED to get kicked in the knee. I am obviously lacking in common sense, because I can't see how after being hit once, he still gets surprised with a second hit - usually when a dude hits me, I kinda realise I'm in a fight.

I will answer your riddle. Because Cage has no skill, certainly not on the level of Bats when it comes to pressure points. In comics, with all its mystical BS, apparently the forehead - skin over solid bone - is a pressure point. How is Cage suddenly knowing where to guard, especially when all Batman needs is one hit?

Agreed, no real discernible difference between meta and peak. Batman's peak. T'challa's peak. T'challa had the element of surprise (don't forget, this is Gotham at night). T'challa managed to surprise Cage, AND THEN managed to bypass Cage's apparently amazing reactions, and landed a second blow, bringing him to his knees. Imagine if Batman's opening blow was the forehead move. The second wouldn't even be needed.

Because he'd be on the floor. Like with Panther.

Can you shuddup so I an answer your question? The reason he didn't block the second nerve strike is because [duh] of the first nerve strike. I never said he could recover instantaneously. By the way, none of this has anything to do with the price of tea in China. I said Cage wouldn't allow a nerve strike PERIOD based on what's happened in the past. He's not stupid.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Wayne raped the "Blue Hulk" that actually did well vs. Superman... he took hits from him, too.

Supertitan Gladiator? I was embarrassed by that name.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
Can you shuddup so I an answer your question? The reason he didn't block the second nerve strike is because [duh] of the first nerve strike. I never said he could recover instantaneously. By the way, none of this has anything to do with the price of tea in China. I said Cage wouldn't allow a nerve strike PERIOD based on what's happened in the past. He's not stupid.

Erm...ok?

So despite you showing him being hit by nerve strikes in the past - I mean, Panther wasn't the first guy to ever use nerve strikes, was he? PLUS he's hung around Iron Fist a fair bit, one would say. IF knows some pressure point attacks.

So yes, I am calling him stupid. He hangs around one of the best MAs in Marvel, he's been attacked by nerve strikes before, he KNOWS who BP is and what he can do - and was surprised by a nerve strike. Great going there.

And how would Cage know what to allow and what not to? You're turning him into the Flash, dodging and ducking every single attack thrown his way - when Cage has never fought like that. With Batman and his mystical BS MA, EVERY attack could potentially be a nerve strike attack. Even tapping onthe forehead. He's hardly going to announce 'btw, Cage, this is a nerve strike'.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Supertitan Gladiator? I was embarrassed by that name.

😂

Yes, it was Supertit. Forgot how "kewl" his name was.

This is what it's come down to. Street level PIS so strong that we're actually debating Batman (without gas attacks) vs LC and the thread isn't closed for spite (against BM).

In a PIS/CIS/SH|T/Writer Armor filled comic, Batman stomps LC.

In a forum fight free of writer armor and other crap, LC destroys him.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Erm...ok?

So despite you showing him being hit by nerve strikes in the past - I mean, Panther wasn't the first guy to ever use nerve strikes, was he? PLUS he's hung around Iron Fist a fair bit, one would say. IF knows some pressure point attacks.

So yes, I am calling him stupid. He hangs around one of the best MAs in Marvel, he's been attacked by nerve strikes before, he KNOWS who BP is and what he can do - and was surprised by a nerve strike. Great going there.

And how would Cage know what to allow and what not to? You're turning him into the Flash, dodging and ducking every single attack thrown his way - when Cage has never fought like that. With Batman and his mystical BS MA, EVERY attack could potentially be a nerve strike attack. Even tapping onthe forehead. He's hardly going to announce 'btw, Cage, this is a nerve strike'.

If I punch you in the fact when you weren't expecting it, does that make you stupid?

You are missing the point. THEY DON'T KNOW EACH OTHER. The learning process goes both ways. How long with it take for Cage to realize Batman has martial arts skills? He's not allowing a nerve strike. A nice chunk of concrete would prevent that from happening.

Originally posted by zopzop
This is what it's come down to. Street level PIS so strong that we're actually debating Batman (without gas attacks) vs LC and the thread isn't closed for spite (against BM).

In a PIS/CIS/SH|T/Writer Armor filled comic, Batman stomps LC.

In a forum fight free of writer armor and other crap, LC destroys him.

It's crazy......

These "posters" buy into the Bat factor hook line and sinker. I'm embarrassed for them.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Cage severely lacks in the skill and speed departments, too.

And Batman's hand speed was superior to depowered T'Challa's in that scene. And we know that T'Challa's speed was sufficient.

Cage wasn't trying to fight panther though. It's pretty easy to argue that someone is slow when they're not prepared for a surprise attack from an ally/inspiration of theirs.

Originally posted by deathslash
It's pretty easy to argue that someone is slow when they're not prepared for a surprise attack from an ally/inspiration of theirs.

Cage has gone up against Hulk, Wonder Man, Namor, etc... He's withstood massive explosive attacks, lasers, bullets, a being trying to destroy him from the inside of his body, etc.

WTF is a 'nerve strike' from a normal human being going to do to him?

This Black Panther/Surfer Armbar level bullsh|t right there.

Originally posted by zopzop
This is what it's come down to. Street level PIS so strong that we're actually debating Batman (without gas attacks) vs LC and the thread isn't closed for spite (against BM).

In a PIS/CIS/SH|T/Writer Armor filled comic, Batman stomps LC.

In a forum fight free of writer armor and other crap, LC destroys him.

When does it stop being PIS, though? Batman does it so regularly, and this is just in the DCnU. DCU, at least we could also bring in his pressure point attacks against Solomon Grundy etc.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
If I punch you in the fact when you weren't expecting it, does that make you stupid?

You are missing the point. THEY DON'T KNOW EACH OTHER. The learning process goes both ways. How long with it take for Cage to realize Batman has martial arts skills? He's not allowing a nerve strike. A nice chunk of concrete would prevent that from happening.

So we're in a bit of a confrontational situation. I know you're a master MA. I know what you're capable of. In the past, I've been attacked by nerve strikes - and I know that apart from them, there is no way a human like yourself would be able to even scratch me. Not only that, I've trained with and worked with an extremely competent buddy of mine, who knows all this mystical kung fuey crap, so I know what MAs can do.

Yeah, I'd be pretty stupid to leave myself open like that.

As to how long it would take for Cage to realise? Well, like I said, if Batman opens with his first h2h action being a nerve strike(which I can show, is within character). THE FIRST action he takes...yeah, the learning curve is pretty damn steep. Batman isn't announcing 'oh, btw, I know 127 different styles, you know - I can pressure point you and paralyse you with the secret five point palm exploding death's head butterfly dragon fist'.

He just does it.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
When does it stop being PIS, though? Batman does it so regularly, and this is just in the DCnU. DCU, at least we could also bring in his pressure point attacks against Solomon Grundy etc.

So we're in a bit of a confrontational situation. I know you're a master MA. I know what you're capable of. In the past, I've been attacked by nerve strikes - and I know that apart from them, there is no way a human like yourself would be able to even scratch me. Not only that, I've trained with and worked with an extremely competent buddy of mine, who knows all this mystical kung fuey crap, so I know what MAs can do.

Yeah, I'd be pretty stupid to leave myself open like that.

As to how long it would take for Cage to realise? Well, like I said, if Batman opens with his first h2h action being a nerve strike(which I can show, is within character). THE FIRST action he takes...yeah, the learning curve is pretty damn steep. Batman isn't announcing 'oh, btw, I know 127 different styles, you know - I can pressure point you and paralyse you with the secret five point palm exploding death's head butterfly dragon fist'.

He just does it.

No, you can't show me that's in character or anywhere near an average showing. I think you've gotten my point (echoed by Punch) and you are just arguing at this point. One punch injures or kills Batman, not that difficult for Cage to pull off.

Originally posted by zopzop
The attack was absolute idiocy anyway.

Cage has gone up against Hulk, Wonder Man, Namor, etc... He's withstood massive explosive attacks, lasers, bullets, a being trying to destroy him from the inside of his body, etc.

WTF is a 'nerve strike' from a normal human being going to do to him?

This Black Panther/Surfer Armbar level bullsh|t right there.

I agree, and this is what the pro Batman contingent is hang there hats on.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
No, you can't show me that's in character or anywhere near an average showing. I think you've gotten my point (echoed by Punch) and you are just arguing at this point. One punch injures or kills Batman, not that difficult for Cage to pull off.

I guess I should clarify.

I haven't changed from my initial post, you see.

1. Batman/Cage start one block apart, Gotham, at night.
2. Batman will stalk and observe Cage from the shadows/rooftop. This is in character. Average showing.
3. When they start fighting, Batman will attack first, as he's the one stalking Cage. Cage won't know where he (Cage, that is) is, and will just be wandering aimlessly. Batman will open with batarangs. In character, on average.
4. They will bounce harmlessly off Cage. In character, on average.
5. Either Cage boasts about his skin ('motherphucker, you're trying to attack ME? I've got unbreakable skin' etc etc - I'm shit at dialogue lol), OR Batman deduces he's got unbreakable skin. In character, on average.
6. At this point, Batman will try using gas or something. BUT riv has specified for whatever reason, he left those at home. SO, he will then go close quarters with Cage, and open with pressure points. THIS is what I meant by 'on average'.

So far, I think all the steps are in character and are average showings.

IOW, what I am trying to say is, on average, Batman will have his first close quarter attack to be a pressure point strike, when his options (batarangs, gas, sonics or whatever) are all shown to be either useless or nonexistent. Throughout most of his history, he always uses his gadgets to soften his enemies up first, then goes in punching. If his gadgets are useless? You think he'd really then go hmmm I'll see what a punch would do?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
('motherphucker, you're trying to attack ME? I've got unbreakable skin' etc etc - I'm shit at dialogue lol)

Actually, that's a very accurate Cage writing right here 😛

Bendis called, he says he may allow you to write a Cage one-shot.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
So you are banking this entire fight on Batman successfully attacking his pressure points without Cage landing a blow, which would kill Batman? Okay. Had it occurred to you that BP knows Cage through and through and Batman doesn't? Skill does not overcome strength and durability when the gap is this wide. Too many people worship skill on this board because of the kewl factor.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW

That's gotta be the fruitiest looking nerve strike illustration I've ever seen.

Hey now, bad art would disqualify anything ever by Liefeld...!

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I guess I should clarify.

I haven't changed from my initial post, you see.

1. Batman/Cage start one block apart, Gotham, at night.
2. Batman will stalk and observe Cage from the shadows/rooftop. This is in character. Average showing.
3. When they start fighting, Batman will attack first, as he's the one stalking Cage. Cage won't know where he (Cage, that is) is, and will just be wandering aimlessly. Batman will open with batarangs. In character, on average.
4. They will bounce harmlessly off Cage. In character, on average.
5. Either Cage boasts about his skin ('motherphucker, you're trying to attack ME? I've got unbreakable skin' etc etc - I'm shit at dialogue lol), OR Batman deduces he's got unbreakable skin. In character, on average.
6. At this point, Batman will try using gas or something. BUT riv has specified for whatever reason, he left those at home. SO, he will then go close quarters with Cage, and open with pressure points. THIS is what I meant by 'on average'.

So far, I think all the steps are in character and are average showings.

IOW, what I am trying to say is, on average, Batman will have his first close quarter attack to be a pressure point strike, when his options (batarangs, gas, sonics or whatever) are all shown to be either useless or nonexistent. Throughout most of his history, he always uses his gadgets to soften his enemies up first, then goes in punching. If his gadgets are useless? You think he'd really then go hmmm I'll see what a punch would do?

Of course he would if he didn't kmow Cage! Batman would habe no reason to attack him long range as Batman is one of the best combatants on the planet. He'd get in close and **** his hand up, then the cat would be out of the bag, and that's if Cage hasn't already broken him. After the first exchange, Batman will back off and use range/stealth attacks, but Cage will recognize him as an elite martial artist. Cage is going to go after him. Again, Cage has to hit him or throw something at him ONCE, Batman has to perfectly execute a nerve strike. Cage.