Poll shows Americans aren't happy with Obama

Started by psmith819925 pages

And so far, Obamacare has surpassed expectations and come in under budget.

Surpassed whose expectations?

But yea, all he has to do now is sit back and enjoy his time. He's not likely to get opportunity to do much big. Barack did his big policies, they're working, and the opposition is still going to try and roadblock him on anything (I can see him trolling with proposing bills to declare puppies and kittens are cute in order to get Republicans to call 'em ugly), so why not relax?

Wait really? Or are you just going to call all the policies that are working, "big"? You don't need to reach with the effect of his presidency. He hasn't done anything tremendous. His sole claim to fame is being better than his predecessor.

I'll be more than happy to go to factcheck and go through his policies, because you're laboring under the delusion that he accomplished all of his "big" policies.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Its funny when 47% on the libby side is using as a positive now. But then when its the opposite they always do this.

When has a 47% rating been used to smear a Republican president?

Originally posted by psmith81992
Surpassed whose expectations?

CBO and multiple other non-partisan sources.

Forbes article: Obamacare now projected to cost hundreds of billions less than expected

"According to the Kaiser Family Foundation—widely regarded as an honest, non-partisan broker when it comes to healthcare issues and analysis—the declining increases in the cost of healthcare is 75 percent the result of economic factors and 25 percent a benefit of the cost cutting measures in the ACA that do, in fact, appear to be working."


Wait really? Or are you just going to call all the policies that are working, "big"? You don't need to reach with the effect of his presidency. He hasn't done anything tremendous. His sole claim to fame is being better than his predecessor.

I'll be more than happy to go to factcheck and go through his policies, because you're laboring under the delusion that he accomplished all of his "big" policies.

He certainly didn't accomplish everything he wanted, no doubt. No-one's claiming that. But to say he hasn't accomplished anything big is, I would say, silly.

However, he did accomplish the stimulus (which we talked about last time, 3 million jobs), Obamacare (which is still bringing down the unemployment rate), and most recently the Iran deal, which is a foreign policy goal that Bush 2 was pursuing back in his day, the US has wanted this for well over a decade.

Also he appointed non-conservative supreme court justices which lead to Gay Marriage passing, which could arguably be counted as his.

Obama has done only a few big moves, but they're quite big, and they worked.

Additionally, resisting the push for austerity is something that's not something done in a specific bill or measure, but is a continuous thing that's quite major- Every single top tier economy that's gone in for austerity during the recession had a multiple dip recession. We didn't and haven't- despite a lot of people pushing for it.

"Avoiding a multi-dip recession that happens whenever anyone does this policy, by stopping attempts to do this policy," is quite significant as well.

right. relevant historical context is stupid and pointless since it doesnt support the anti obama feel-smart circlejerk. (in general response to all that page 1 horseshit)

I'm actually one of those who feel like Obama did a decent job considering what he had to deal with.

He certainly didn't accomplish everything he wanted, no doubt. No-one's claiming that. But to say he hasn't accomplished anything big is, I would say, silly.

You said he accomplished ALL the big policies.

Obamacare (which is still bringing down the unemployment rate)

I'd like to see this.

and most recently the Iran deal, which is a foreign policy goal that Bush 2 was pursuing back in his day, the US has wanted this for well over a decade.

This isn't a big thing considering the backlash he's getting and the majority of Americans being against it. It wasn't a terrible deal but it wasn't a good one either. Simply saying he pulled it off when Bush didn't doesn't make it a big deal.

Also he appointed non-conservative supreme court justices which lead to Gay Marriage passing, which could arguably be counted as his.

Then he's also responsible for the largest national debt in world history, if we're giving credit and blame for anything that happened on his watch.

And there is a large camp of economists that believe we should have let the economy crash to reduce the damage for the next generation (Paul, Schiff, etc). Not saying I support or oppose it but it's an interesting theory to let everything fail, deal with the huge disaster, and rebuild anew.

Originally posted by psmith81992
You said he accomplished ALL the big policies.

Yes. The stimulus, Obamacare, Iran deal, gay marriage.

That's not everything he wanted, but that's the big ones.

He wanted more stimulus, more small things, etc., but it's hard to deny that, though it took wrangling, he got those big things done. I guess the biggest thing he failed at is... working to reduce bipartisanship, though he certainly tried pretty hard! Hand has the marks from being slapped away, to be sure. Still, yea, I guess that one is not in the win category out of big things.

I'd like to see this.

Ack, typo on my part, I meant uninsured rate... but that said, yes, the unemployment rate also continues to go down. I don't think it's necessarily Obamacare related, but hey, it certainly isn't hurting, it's quite possibly a positive factor.

(Article with numbers "in the year and a half since Obamacare went fully into effect, the U.S. economy has added an average of 237,000 private-sector jobs per month."😉


This isn't a big thing considering the backlash he's getting and the majority of Americans being against it.

Didn't we get into a discussion about how the objections are largely on party lines....?

The GOP tries to rally the country against everything he does. They did so against the successful stimulus, they did so against his support for gay marriage.

A backlash does not equal a good deal. Experts in the intelligence and nuclear communites, and most of the rest of the world is for it.

Iranian hardliners who are rapidly anti-American hate it.

Now, I know you're big in with those hardliners, but I don't think they're always right.

It wasn't a terrible deal but it wasn't a good one either. Simply saying he pulled it off when Bush didn't doesn't make it a big deal.

The thing is, Bush would've been right in doing it too. It is a good deal. It would've been good under Bush, it is good under Obama.

It has multi-layed measures that make getting a bomb harder, from major economic repercussions for doing so, to reducing physical capabilities, to finally and least important, inspectors, which also has the double-bonus of increasing the amount of information are intelligence community has so they can watch more intensely and accurately. It does so in exchange for sanctions that aren't going to last indefinitely even without a deal (since they rely on international support including from countries that are grumpy with us), and those sanctions couldn't have prevented a bomb anyway.

Just because you don't like Obama does not make this a bad deal. The deal was, in fact, designed so that even if they break it we're better off for having done so.


Then he's also responsible for the largest national debt in world history, if we're giving credit and blame for anything that happened on his watch.

In dollar terms, sure. However, in percentage of GDP terms, it's not a US record nor is it near the top for first world countries that have stable economics that are not in danger from debt- That'd be Japan.

You see, the sensible response to an economic crash is spending out of it, and then once you're healthy your GDP growth increases greater than the debt and your ability to pay- and before you respond to that, let me remind you that is *exactly* how we dealt with the great depression/world war 2 debt, very successfully, and that was higher in percent-of-GDP terms, and attempts to not-spend your way out of debt and instead cut it with austerity ironically cut into the economy, which lowers revenue, which in turn rising debt.

This is what happened to several other countries during the recession, and in the past with Japan's "Lost Decade," which finally ended when Japan spent their way out of it. Now they have a debt that percent-of-GDP-wise exceeding ours by a fair amount, but a healthy economy again.

Another fun factoid is the one time the US actually got rid of our debt entirely, it caused a significant economic crash because our debt is a commodity that's bought and sold and is thus a very stabilizing influence on the market, debt is ironically valuable. And, with interest rates as they are, currently it basically amounts to 'other people paying us to hold their money.' Which is not a phrase one often associates with 'too much.'

Also, the debt went up way high under his predecessor who left him with lingering costs, and without the excuse of world wide economic crash.

Furthermore, one of Donald Trump's good position is he isn't leaping to cut social security and medicare- because he isn't afraid of debt.

Debt is an area I have a high degree of familiarity in.


And there is a large camp of economists that believe we should have let the economy crash to reduce the damage for the next generation (Paul, Schiff, etc). Not saying I support or oppose it but it's an interesting theory to let everything fail, deal with the huge disaster, and rebuild anew.

These people are frankly idiots, and they are also a small camp of the actual economics (they're a bigger camp of 'non-economists who have strong ideological opinions of the economy'😉. The economists of both parties came in strong support of both bailouts and stimulus, even if that, especially the latter part, likes to get forgotten by some people nowadays.

20%+ unemployment rates, collapsed financial institutions (remember, during the crash banks were taking down banks in a chain reaction of one going under crashing assets controlled by others- The India railway was affected because the wUS's lending capacity took such a large blow. Businesses that use short-term loans took major hits- and would've fallen if the banks didn't start loaning again, etc.), and that sort of thing do not 'lessen damage to the next generation.'

Doing nothing was part of the cause of the great depression. It sucked. Doing something got us recovery in similar times to the much smaller 80s recession.

Hey, another praise Trump moment: I think there's an almost 0% chance Trump would agree with the assessment of that pro-crash group (unless I misjudged him), and I would applaud at the insults he'd give them if a situation like that came up during a hypothetical Trump presidency.

Theoretical? Lol, Trump will be president, and thats all there is to it, there is nothing anyone can do here to stop it, he has totally changed the race and got the weak republicans talking about the real issues they avoided, and in turn makes the libbys look like hypocrites with anchor baby defense. Show me one ralley that Clinton has but up with 40,000+ people.

Yes. The stimulus, Obamacare, Iran deal, gay marriage.

Iran Deal wasn't a big deal. He also accomplished the largest national debt in world history. So if we're going to give him praise, he's getting the blame as well.

though he certainly tried pretty hard!

You really seem to believe this.

The GOP tries to rally the country against everything he does. They did so against the successful stimulus, they did so against his support for gay marriage.

Democrats did the same when Bush was in power. I didn't hear you complaining then

Experts in the intelligence and nuclear communites, and most of the rest of the world is for it.

I'm not sure you can find any source that shows most of the world is for the deal, while most of Americans are certainly against it.

Just because you don't like Obama does not make this a bad deal. The deal was, in fact, designed so that even if they break it we're better off for having done so.

I have no opinion of Obama one way or the other, I actually like him better than Bush. I don't like his policies. And I didn't say it was a bad deal but it certainly wasn't a good one.

You see, the sensible response to an economic crash is spending out of it, and then once you're healthy your GDP growth increases greater than the debt and your ability to pay- and before you respond to that, let me remind you that is *exactly* how we dealt with the great depression/world war 2 debt, very successfully, and that was higher in percent-of-GDP terms, and attempts to not-spend your way out of debt and instead cut it with austerity ironically cut into the economy, which lowers revenue, which in turn rising debt.

When you say that the sensible job is spending out of that, you're foolishly assuming the US dollar will ALWAYS be the reserve currency and that China will continue funding out debt. That is the ONLY thing that allows us to racking up astronomical numbers, so no it's not sensible, it's a gamble.

Another fun factoid is the one time the US actually got rid of our debt entirely, it caused a significant economic crash because our debt is a commodity that's bought and sold and is thus a very stabilizing influence on the market, debt is ironically valuable. And, with interest rates as they are, currently it basically amounts to 'other people paying us to hold their money.' Which is not a phrase one often associates with 'too much.'

Would you like to compare our economies "spending out of debt" to the ones that were stable under the gold standard?

These people are frankly idiots, and they are also a small camp of the actual economics (they're a bigger camp of 'non-economists who have strong ideological opinions of the economy'😉. The economists of both parties came in strong support of both bailouts and stimulus, even if that, especially the latter part, likes to get forgotten by some people nowadays.

Ron Paul and Peter Schiff are world class economists.

20%+ unemployment rates, collapsed financial institutions (remember, during the crash banks were taking down banks in a chain reaction of one going under crashing assets controlled by others- The India railway was affected because the wUS's lending capacity took such a large blow. Businesses that use short-term loans took major hits- and would've fallen if the banks didn't start loaning again, etc.), and that sort of thing do not 'lessen damage to the next generation.'

Yes, it would have been a shit storm. But once we got out of the shit storm, we'd be looking at unparalleled prosperity. The reason the mainstream economists don't want to do this is rightly because we don't want a collapse of that nature, regardless of the positive effects it would have longterm.

Doing nothing was part of the cause of the great depression. It sucked. Doing something got us recovery in similar times to the much smaller 80s recession.

See, I disagree. Doing something actually extended the great depression by a good 6-8 years. The New Deal was a success on the outside but when you really look at it, it extended the Great Depression.

Also I think Trump would agree with the Pro crash group if we could declare bankruptcy.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Theoretical? Lol, Trump will be president, and thats all there is to it, there is nothing anyone can do here to stop it, he has totally changed the race and got the weak republicans talking about the real issues they avoided, and in turn makes the libbys look like hypocrites with anchor baby defense. Show me one ralley that Clinton has but up with 40,000+ people.

👆

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Theoretical? Lol, Trump will be president, and thats all there is to it, there is nothing anyone can do here to stop it, he has totally changed the race and got the weak republicans talking about the real issues they avoided, and in turn makes the libbys look like hypocrites with anchor baby defense. Show me one ralley that Clinton has but up with 40,000+ people.

If you're so certain, why not put up a bet with some bookie in Vegas?

I think you're ignoring that while Trump has a sizeable support base, thus far he lacks broad appeal across the political spectrum. You won't win the presidency if 30% of the country loves you (and that's probably a bit generous) but 50% thinks you're a joke.

Him even winning the nomination is unlikely. Once candidates start dropping out their votes will coalesce, and I doubt Trump will get many of them.

Yes trumps supporters are a joke, just like Hilary's supporters.😂

Originally posted by Omega Vision
If you're so certain, why not put up a bet with some bookie in Vegas?

That's a great question, I just posted a really good podcast discussing it (spoiler: cause it's illegal):

Originally posted by Bardock42
NPR Planet Money: Why We Can't Bet On Elections?

Only marginally related, but very fascinating anyways. And I'd bet on the cat.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Yes trumps supporters are a joke, just like Hilary's supporters.😂

That's not what he's saying. You seem to think that Trump will win the nomination just because he has a decently sized fanbase among the public. He'll need x amount of delegates from the party and party-wise, he isn't that popular.

To OV's end-point, let's say Rubio, Cruz and Huckabee drop out, do you think their delagates will more likely jump over to Trump or Bush?

Bush is a joke.

It's like you're impervious to any and all info that doesn't fit whatever 'truth' you believe at the moment.

Makes having an honest conversation nigh impossible.

I don't bother anymore, I don't know why others do.

Originally posted by Robtard
It's like you're impervious to any and all info that doesn't fit whatever 'truth' you believe at the moment.

Makes having an honest conversation nigh impossible.

I don't care about these old names and old political family's. Why discuss the devil when you know he wants your kids?

Why don't you talk about Sanders, I would respect you more, get off the Bush/Hilary bandwagon. They had their chance, let someone else have theirs.

Originally posted by psmith81992
I don't bother anymore, I don't know why others do.

There is a big lie, you did flips all morning for me. Acting like you don't bother a few hours later. 😂

Priceless

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
I don't care about these old names and old political family's. Why discuss the devil when you know he wants your kids?

Why don't you talk about Sanders, I would respect you more, get off the Bush/Hilary bandwagon. They had their chance, let someone else have theirs.

This type of response proves my point above.

It's also almost like you read my post before that one and 'heard' something entirely different.