Originally posted by juggerman
It isn't wrong. As I said Goku could clearly see Beerus didn't use a fraction of his power by the way he easily stomped him. That's why his Vegito statement seemed more like a guess than a outright fact. I haven't made a thing up. That's more your style 😛
Lol...Goku wouldn't have know if Beerus wasn't complete though. Him easily taking Goku out doesn't mean he wasn't using a fraction of his power (in Goku eyes) because Goku wouldn't have had a way of knowing this. None whatsoever. Especially with Beerus telling him he is about to show him the power of a god.
Also, Goku made it sound like a definite on not being able to beat Beerus (let alone challenge him) if him and Vegeta merged.
Originally posted by carver9
Lol...Goku wouldn't have know if Beerus wasn't complete though. Him easily taking Goku out doesn't mean he wasn't using a fraction of his power (in Goku eyes) because Goku wouldn't have had a way of knowing this. None whatsoever. Especially with Beerus telling him he is about to show him the power of a god.Also, Goku made it sound like a definite on not being able to beat Beerus (let alone challenge him) if him and Vegeta merged.
Goku saw Beerus not break a sweat. You really think Goku, a freaking fighting genius, wouldn't realise Beerus wasn't using his full power? Wow carver. Just wow.
He didn't think it would be enough but he was hardly sure.
Originally posted by juggerman
Goku saw Beerus not break a sweat. You really think Goku, a freaking fighting genius, wouldn't realise Beerus wasn't using his full power? Wow carver. Just wow.He didn't think it would be enough but he was hardly sure.
Ok, I don't think you understand what I mean by holding back and not holding back. Goku did not know Beerus was using his complete power during that fight. He could have been at 100% and easily dismissed Goku (which is what Goku was thinking during this fight since Beerus did say he is about to show Goku the power of a God). Goku had no idea Beerus was using such a small percentage against him. He would not have known since again, Beerus power is unreadable by Goku.
Do you get it now? 😠
Originally posted by Kento
Vegeta with Rage Boost is above Mystic Gohan, maybe even close to as strong as Buutenks. But you have Piccolo's mind, with Gotenks Kamikaze Ghost, and Volleyball attacks, and Buu's abilities. If Vegeta ends up stronger, Buu just absorbs him like he always does with stronger opponents.
I doubt Vegeta was above Mystic Gohan in the Buu Saga. Super Buu was at least 8x stronger than SSJ3 Goku. We know this because we know SSJ1 Gotenks was about equal in power to SSJ3 Goku an he needed a SSJ3(a boost of 8x) to compete evenly with Super Buu. Gohan was likely around twice as strong as Buu by the way he treated him. Meaning Gohan would've been somewhere in the realm of 16x SSJ3 Goku.
Beerus using 10% of his power to deal wit Vegeta doesn't mean Vegeta was at 10% of Beerus. But even if it did, we're looking at him being maybe 10x stronger than Goku. Still not Mystic Gohan or Buutenks levels
Originally posted by juggerman
I doubt Vegeta was above Mystic Gohan in the Buu Saga. Super Buu was at least 8x stronger than SSJ3 Goku. We know this because we know SSJ1 Gotenks was about equal in power to SSJ3 Goku an he needed a SSJ3(a boost of 8x) to compete evenly with Super Buu. Gohan was likely around twice as strong as Buu by the way he treated him. Meaning Gohan would've been somewhere in the realm of 16x SSJ3 Goku.Beerus using 10% of his power to deal wit Vegeta doesn't mean Vegeta was at 10% of Beerus. But even if it did, we're looking at him being maybe 10x stronger than Goku. Still not Mystic Gohan or Buutenks levels
This doesn't make any sense since we've seen how Beerus and Gohan faired. Gohan got treated like fodder whereas Vegeta tanked a full fledged hit from Beerus and kept attacking. Vegeta was far above Gohan.
Originally posted by NewGuy01Goku certainly wasn't under the impression that the power Beerus displayed during their battle was his max... He knew Beerus was holding back immensely.
Even though Goku tells us that even if he fused with Vegeta, he'd still never be able to beat 3-5% Beerus?
That said, Goku was logically guesstimating that a theoretical 'all-out'/100% Beerus would be > Vegetto/Gogeta.
Originally posted by bbrem123A few episodes ago, Vegeta could barely even move in 150G, and was completely taxed after a few seconds of training... Yet you'd have me believe he was > than his Boo-era-self(pre-rage boost.)
You have to remember that this vegeta and goku are far superior to their dbz counterparts. So that math is inaccurate.
I disagree.
Originally posted by carver9
Ok, I don't think you understand what I mean by holding back and not holding back. Goku did not know Beerus was using his complete power during that fight. He could have been at 100% and easily dismissed Goku (which is what Goku was thinking during this fight since Beerus did say he is about to show Goku the power of a God). Goku had no idea Beerus was using such a small percentage against him. He would not have known since again, Beerus power is unreadable by Goku.Do you get it now? 😠
Frieza can't read ki at all yet still knew Goku was holding back his power in their fight. Goku is a much better fighter and strategist than Frieza. Im sure there are other examples too but to assume he thought Beerus was using his full power doesn't really go with what we know about Goku.
What you're saying seems like you just want to put these guys at levels they aren't at yet.
Originally posted by carver9
This doesn't make any sense since we've seen how Beerus and Gohan faired. Gohan got treated like fodder whereas Vegeta tanked a full fledged hit from Beerus and kept attacking. Vegeta was far above Gohan.
The numbers don't lie. Gohan likely was weaker here than at end of Z
Originally posted by juggerman16x ssj3 Gokou, like about two years ago. We've seen how fast Gokou and Vegeta can improve in just a year. ssj2 Gokou and Vegeta were equals. So, in DBZ Gokou is 4x Stronger. That probably really doesn't change at all, because Vegeta never goes ssj3.
I doubt Vegeta was above Mystic Gohan in the Buu Saga. Super Buu was at least 8x stronger than SSJ3 Goku. We know this because we know SSJ1 Gotenks was about equal in power to SSJ3 Goku an he needed a SSJ3(a boost of 8x) to compete evenly with Super Buu. Gohan was likely around twice as strong as Buu by the way he treated him. Meaning Gohan would've been somewhere in the realm of 16x SSJ3 Goku.Beerus using 10% of his power to deal wit Vegeta doesn't mean Vegeta was at 10% of Beerus. But even if it did, we're looking at him being maybe 10x stronger than Goku. Still not Mystic Gohan or Buutenks levels
So in a year that 16x probably goes down considerably. Gokou has probably become at least Super Buu level at full power as we've seen him get more than 20x more powerful from Radditz to Vegeta (400 to 8,000), and in months 12x from Vegeta to fighting Captain Ginyu (8,000 to 90,000). After that, power levels kind of fade away. So, 2 years, 8x stronger isn't very hard to believe.
So it's completely possible that Rage Boost Vegeta is at the very least Mystic Gohan levels, or between Mystic and Buutenks.