Originally posted by carver9
Be quiet H1.And he couldn't even move Adam out of the center city.
A non holding back Superman. Read comics. An argument can be made that Adam was holding back but I don't even want to take it that far.
Adam wins here of course.
Originally posted by h1a8
Not only there are various levels of holding back but Superman holds back both consciously AND subconsciously. Letting go a little consciously (as in this scan) is only a small amp. The huge amp is when he let's go subconsciously. In OWAW and DOS, Superman couldn't tap into his subconscious to release those blocks without meditation and training or being under great duress.
So by Superman currently being able to release those blocks at will to whatever level he wants then he can match or exceed 2x BA in the strength department. The Speed department has Superman already winning by a lot. And the ranged powers give Superman still a great advantage.
Gibberish.
Talk about stacking the deck. With the stipulations as per the op, this is a horror-stomp for BA.
Originally posted by h1a8
Not only there are various levels of holding back but Superman holds back both consciously AND subconsciously. Letting go a little consciously (as in this scan) is only a small amp. The huge amp is when he let's go subconsciously. In OWAW and DOS, Superman couldn't tap into his subconscious to release those blocks without meditation and training or being under great duress.
So by Superman currently being able to release those blocks at will to whatever level he wants then he can match or exceed 2x BA in the strength department. The Speed department has Superman already winning by a lot. And the ranged powers give Superman still a great advantage.
Prove there are various levels of holding back.
Superman's advantages:
Speed
Better reflexes
HV as a long range attack
Freeze breath as a slowing down tactic.
Ability to vibrate through attacks.
BAs advantages
Strength (unless superman let's loose completely as in OWAW).
The Speed and reflex advantage will help Superman get far more hits on BA than he gets on him. This will offset the strength advantage. Adding in hv and freeze breath (to Slightly slow BAs motion) then Superman wins this handily. If Superman chooses to use his intangibility ability to evade attacks then that adds even more to Superman winning.
Superman isn't dumb. If he realizes that BA is twice as powerful then he will turn it up and fight smarter (using speed to his advantage, hv as a long range tactic, freeze breath to slow BA down slightly, using his ability to drop his mental blocks to increase his strength, use intangibility to avoid attacks, etc).
Most are only considering strength in comic fights (which is the least important advantage when one character is within a couple times stronger). Superman is more than 2x stronger than Thor but if speed was equalized Thor would beat Superman for the majority. I can name many comic fights where the physically weaker can beat the stronger by using other advantages.
You forget he's now 2x as magical, with magic being another advantage.
Why would ice slow him down (even slightly)? At the speeds these guys move at, and at their strength levels, moving through ice would not slow them down in the slightest.
I mean, if you encased me in cobwebs, it's not going to slow me down at all. You'd have to really REALLY pour it on, and even then, it's doubtful.
Not sure how intangibility affects magic, seeing as by definition it breaks the laws of physics.
Superman may not be dumb....but BA also has 2x the Wisdom he previously had. Not to mention, 2x the durability (so his fists are now 2x as hard etc).
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
You forget he's now 2x as magical, with magic being another advantage.Why would ice slow him down (even slightly)? At the speeds these guys move at, and at their strength levels, moving through ice would not slow them down in the slightest.
I mean, if you encased me in cobwebs, it's not going to slow me down at all. You'd have to really REALLY pour it on, and even then, it's doubtful.
Not sure how intangibility affects magic, seeing as by definition it breaks the laws of physics.
Superman may not be dumb....but BA also has 2x the Wisdom he previously had. Not to mention, 2x the durability (so his fists are now 2x as hard etc).
1. Ice can be any degree of cold and hardness. For example, ice, if cold enough, can be harder than steel. Also Supermans freeze breath has frozen peers for more than a minute. It's fair to say that his freeze breath could at least reduce BAs speed by 50% for approximately a few moments.
2. There is no such thing as 2x the magic. Magic is magic. It's a signature only. It's the power behind the magic that counts, not the signature. Being twice as strong then BA can affect Superman twice as much as usual.
3. BA has no feats of affecting intangible beings. I seen several instances of magical beings failing to affect intangible beings with physical attacks.
4. Superman still has speed, hv, and ability to drop mental blocks further. BA has double the durability but that doesn't mean "harder" or that Superman's hv or fists won't hurt him significantly . The fact that Superman will hit BA far more times than the other way around proves that strength and durability increases are nullified.
Originally posted by h1a8
1. Ice can be any degree of cold and hardness. For example, ice, if cold enough, can be harder than steel. Also Supermans freeze breath has frozen peers for more than a minute. It's fair to say that his freeze breath could at least reduce BAs speed by 50% for approximately a few moments.2. There is no such thing as 2x the magic. Magic is magic. It's a signature only. It's the power behind the magic that counts, not the signature. Being twice as strong then BA can affect Superman twice as much as usual.
3. BA has no feats of affecting intangible beings. I seen several instances of magical beings failing to affect intangible beings with physical attacks.
4. Superman still has speed, hv, and ability to drop mental blocks further. BA has double the durability but that doesn't mean "harder" or that Superman's hv or fists won't hurt him significantly . The fact that Superman will hit BA far more times than the other way around proves that strength and durability increases are nullified.
1. So proof that Superman's breath is harder than steel? Not that it matters, as BA unamped has torn through steel like paper before - and now, he is 2x. So no, it is NOT fair to say what you say.
2. You forgett his lightning. Which will be 2x as potent, even though the energy it kicks out is the same (see Martian Manhunter).
3. Post them. We need to see if they are comparable magicians.
4. Read the OP. He is 2x everything. Everything for me including hardness, toughness etc.
Black Adam already have enough strength to rip through an abstract without the amp.
And rip the head off of Amazo. A JLA fighting being.
Fight the entirety of the JSA by himself.
This is him without a 2 times amp. Imagine giving him an amp of this magnitude. Be quiet H1.
Does anyone have thar scan where Adam was punched so hard it sent him flying to another planet and he got up like nothing happened?
Are there any instances of Superman not holding back?
If so, what would they be?
1. Superman fighting DOS Doomsday?
2. Eclipsed Superman?
3. OWAW mind set Superman?
4. Max Lord controlled Superman?
This will help us to determine a Superman that is not holding back
and give us an idea of if he could go up against BA at this level.
What's funny is that H1A8 claimed that HV wouldn't work against
BA, but now he's arguing that it would.