Black Adam amp2x Vs Superman

Originally posted by Stoic
Are there any instances of Superman not holding back?
If so, what would they be?

1. Superman fighting DOS Doomsday?
2. Eclipsed Superman?
3. OWAW mind set Superman?
4. Max Lord controlled Superman?

This will help us to determine a Superman that is not holding back
and give us an idea of if he could go up against BA at this level.
What's funny is that H1A8 claimed that HV wouldn't work against
BA, but now he's arguing that it would.

I would say everything depends on his mindset and the situation.

1. Was the Byrne era Superman who was, compared to later, a tier or two lower powerwise. Anyway, he was able to go up to the Superman tier once he had to against DD. Superman here starts as mid Herald and goes up to HH or a notch above in the end.

2. Eclipse Superman should be on the level of a holding back or even below this level, as Superman subconsciously always fights for control. I would say that this would be HH or low Trans.

3. OWAW Superman was the first and sans FC the only time we saw a calm, concentrated and focused Superman who used his powers to the fullest, strategicaly. He is the true non holding back Superman and max high trans or above the Trans Tier.

4. Max Lord controlled Superman was a raging beast and even though he might have put more power into his punches than usual he didn't had the focus and control he had during OWAW and thus i would say no, he is a handicapped Superman and not the true all out Superman. He would be low Trans to mid Trans.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
I would say everything depends on his mindset and the situation.

1. Was the Byrne era Superman who was, compared to later, a tier or two lower powerwise. Anyway, he was able to go up to the Superman tier once he had to against DD. Superman here starts as mid Herald and goes up to HH or a notch above in the end.

2. Eclipse Superman should be on the level of a holding back or even below this level, as Superman subconsciously always fights for control. I would say that this would be HH or low Trans.

3. OWAW Superman was the first and sans FC the only time we saw a calm, concentrated and focused Superman who used his powers to the fullest, strategicaly. He is the true non holding back Superman and max high trans or above the Trans Tier.

4. Max Lord controlled Superman was a raging beast and even though he might have put more power into his punches than usual he didn't had the focus and control he had during OWAW and thus i would say no, he is a handicapped Superman and not the true all out Superman. He would be low Trans to mid Trans.

He's not a ****ing trans! You people are brain dead.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
I would say everything depends on his mindset and the situation.

1. Was the Byrne era Superman who was, compared to later, a tier or two lower powerwise. Anyway, he was able to go up to the Superman tier once he had to against DD. Superman here starts as mid Herald and goes up to HH or a notch above in the end.

2. Eclipse Superman should be on the level of a holding back or even below this level, as Superman subconsciously always fights for control. I would say that this would be HH or low Trans.

3. OWAW Superman was the first and sans FC the only time we saw a calm, concentrated and focused Superman who used his powers to the fullest, strategicaly. He is the true non holding back Superman and max high trans or above the Trans Tier.

4. Max Lord controlled Superman was a raging beast and even though he might have put more power into his punches than usual he didn't had the focus and control he had during OWAW and thus i would say no, he is a handicapped Superman and not the true all out Superman. He would be low Trans to mid Trans.

And a raging Black Adam fought heralds like MM, Guy, WW, and trans like Alan Scott. And has fought Dr Fate.

So a raging BA is trans, and a 2x amped BA is......?

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
I would say everything depends on his mindset and the situation.

1. Was the Byrne era Superman who was, compared to later, a tier or two lower powerwise. Anyway, he was able to go up to the Superman tier once he had to against DD. Superman here starts as mid Herald and goes up to HH or a notch above in the end.

2. Eclipse Superman should be on the level of a holding back or even below this level, as Superman subconsciously always fights for control. I would say that this would be HH or low Trans.

3. OWAW Superman was the first and sans FC the only time we saw a calm, concentrated and focused Superman who used his powers to the fullest, strategicaly. He is the true non holding back Superman and max high trans or above the Trans Tier.

4. Max Lord controlled Superman was a raging beast and even though he might have put more power into his punches than usual he didn't had the focus and control he had during OWAW and thus i would say no, he is a handicapped Superman and not the true all out Superman. He would be low Trans to mid Trans.

The only guy that I can truly say is a mirror image of BA physically is Captain Marvel. Superman while eclipsed fought him in a bid to take over Captain Marvel's body. He was unable to do this, and Marvel appeared to be his physical equal. He was even seen palming what appeared to be Superman's best Sunday punch. Is there any proof at all to prove that Superman was in control at all? He appeared to be fully eclipsed, and there was no sign at all that Kal-El was in the driver's seat. He appeared to be going all out from where I stood.

What I believe we saw, was Superman's body devoid of Kal-El going all out. If, that was a going all out Superman breaking even with Captain Marvel who was also going all out to avoid losing his body, how would Superman ever hope to defeat Black Adam coming in with double the stats?

Originally posted by Stoic
The only guy that I can truly say is a mirror image of BA physically is Captain Marvel. Superman while eclipsed fought him in a bid to take over Captain Marvel's body. He was unable to do this, and Marvel appeared to be his physical equal. He was even seen palming what appeared to be Superman's best Sunday punch. Is there any proof at all to prove that Superman was in control at all? He appeared to be fully eclipsed, and there was no sign at all that Kal-El was in the driver's seat. He appeared to be going all out from where I stood.

What I believe we saw, was Superman's body devoid of Kal-El going all out. If, that was a going all out Superman breaking even with Captain Marvel who was also going all out to avoid losing his body, how would Superman ever hope to defeat Black Adam coming in with double the stats?

Did you see the Black Adam vs Superman fight? Overall, don't listen to Prof, you already experienced how he is when it comes to Supes.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
And a raging Black Adam fought heralds like MM, Guy, WW, and trans like Alan Scott. And has fought Dr Fate.

So a raging BA is trans, and a 2x amped BA is......?

And he hold his own which is impressive. I agree that he was there low Trans, even though many tried to reason with him. With a double amp he would be mid to high Trans. Though Superman in his OWAW mindset oneshotted probes that beat teams of HH and were HH, trans or some even low Skyfather.

Originally posted by Stoic
The only guy that I can truly say is a mirror image of BA physically is Captain Marvel. Superman while eclipsed fought him in a bid to take over Captain Marvel's body. He was unable to do this, and Marvel appeared to be his physical equal. He was even seen palming what appeared to be Superman's best Sunday punch. Is there any proof at all to prove that Superman was in control at all? He appeared to be fully eclipsed, and there was no sign at all that Kal-El was in the driver's seat. He appeared to be going all out from where I stood.

What I believe we saw, was Superman's body devoid of Kal-El going all out. If, that was a going all out Superman breaking even with Captain Marvel who was also going all out to avoid losing his body, how would Superman ever hope to defeat Black Adam coming in with double the stats?

If someone controlls Superman, he fights for control, if he is not in the body it's not Superman, it's someone else who uses his body, so never all out and what Superman would be. This is rather simple, mindcontrolled chars are handicapped, they lack the experience, focus or whatever traits make this char unique. It's not about powersets.

If you want to believe it sure, go ahead. We have a direct showing of an all out, not mindcontrolled, and focused Superman, who was treating Probes, that were able to beat whole Superhero Teams, some singlehanded 100000 daxamites and were at the very least, if you feel like lowballing, High Herald and most likely in the Trans to low Skyfather tier. OWAW mindset Superman oneshotted them.

So, if we compare those two Supermen we have two things that are clear.

Eclipso, controlled, Superman was far below OWAW Mindset Superman and as thus not on the powerlevel of an all out Superman, even if Eclipso believed he uses the body to the best effect.
And, as this wasn't an truly all out Superman who went even with Cap, Black Adam would need an 10 fold increase to compete with this version.

Originally posted by carver9
Did you see the Black Adam vs Superman fight? Overall, don't listen to Prof, you already experienced how he is when it comes to Supes.

I saw it, but there was no true winner in that battle. At least when Superman fought Captain Marvel, we were given several scenes to really compare them physically. Superman was eclipsed, so Marvel wasn't holding back to the extent that he would have been if he were fighting Kal-El. That fight was really something that people should take a closer look at.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
And he hold his own which is impressive. I agree that he was there low Trans, even though many tried to reason with him. With a double amp he would be mid to high Trans. Though Superman in his OWAW mindset oneshotted probes that beat teams of HH and were HH, trans or some even low Skyfather.

But then, you'd have to show they were the same standard.

At least we know Alan is Alan, MM is MM etc.

Superman is a HERALD class character. Surfer would kick his ass. Thanks.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
Superman is a HERALD class character. Surfer would kick his ass. Thanks.

I think your life would become a lot easier if you just put fan boys on ignore.

As for this thread its spite.

Originally posted by Facee
I think your life would become a lot easier if you just put fan boys on ignore.

As for this thread its spite.

At the rate the h1 infection is going, I might end up putting have the board on ignore.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
And he hold his own which is impressive. I agree that he was there low Trans, even though many tried to reason with him. With a double amp he would be mid to high Trans. Though Superman in his OWAW mindset oneshotted probes that beat teams of HH and were HH, trans or some even low Skyfather.

If someone controlls Superman, he fights for control, if he is not in the body it's not Superman, it's someone else who uses his body, so never all out and what Superman would be. This is rather simple, mindcontrolled chars are handicapped, they lack the experience, focus or whatever traits make this char unique. It's not about powersets.

If you want to believe it sure, go ahead. We have a direct showing of an all out, not mindcontrolled, and focused Superman, who was treating Probes, that were able to beat whole Superhero Teams, some singlehanded 100000 daxamites and were at the very least, if you feel like lowballing, High Herald and most likely in the Trans to low Skyfather tier. OWAW mindset Superman oneshotted them.

So, if we compare those two Supermen we have two things that are clear.

Eclipso, controlled, Superman was far below OWAW Mindset Superman and as thus not on the powerlevel of an all out Superman, even if Eclipso believed he uses the body to the best effect.
And, as this wasn't an truly all out Superman who went even with Cap, Black Adam would need an 10 fold increase to compete with this version.

This brings up another question. Could the Probes have beaten groups of Low to High Herald (most being low)? We have no idea how a battle which pits Wonder Woman against Firelord would actually go. This is not to low ball, but an attempt to place things in a clearer perspective. Anyone can jump out of the bushes and make claims that Superman is an Odin level character while not holding back, but where is the proof of this? Who has he fought that would make a non holding back Surfer willing to use his full range of powers look like a wimp?

It's not that simple to just jump Superman over the High Herald tier because he has defeated character above that tier. Look at Thor for example. he has several showings of going well above his weight class, and winning. All the same, I really don't think that I am low balling Superman for saying that he requires a lot of evidence to suggest that he is a tier or two above Black Adam instead of being in the same tier.

Originally posted by Facee
I think your life would become a lot easier if you just put fan boys on ignore.

As for this thread its spite.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
At the rate the h1 infection is going, I might end up putting have the board on ignore.

No idea who h1 is ? I must have put him on ignore a long time ago. I put anyone who is biased on ignore.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
1. So proof that Superman's breath is harder than steel? Not that it matters, as BA unamped has torn through steel like paper before - and now, he is 2x. So no, it is NOT fair to say what you say.

2. You forgett his lightning. Which will be 2x as potent, even though the energy it kicks out is the same (see Martian Manhunter).

3. Post them. We need to see if they are comparable magicians.

4. Read the OP. He is 2x everything. Everything for me including hardness, toughness etc.

1. I said ice can be harder than steel. I didn't say Superman's ice was hard AS steel. The implication was HARDER and not as hard. Superman has frozen beings that can rip through steel like tissue paper. So it's fair to assume that it can slow down BA quite a bit.

2. BA doesn't have a lightning attack. Are you referring to lightning on his fists? This is all moot since I said BA attacks will be twice as effective.

3. BA has no feats affecting
the intangible with mere punches. Thus he can't. Do you have any evidence that he can?

4. So you are taking the OP literally? So BA is twice as soft and twice as hard.
Anyway, it's irrelevant since Superman can harm him, hit him far more times than the other way around, have ranged powers that can win without Superman getting touched, has intangible abilities, etc.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
OWAW Mindset Superman would be spite tbh.

Originally posted by Stoic
This brings up another question. Could the Probes have beaten groups of Low to High Herald (most being low)? We have no idea how a battle which pits Wonder Woman against Firelord would actually go. This is not to low ball, but an attempt to place things in a clearer perspective. Anyone can jump out of the bushes and make claims that Superman is an Odin level character while not holding back, but where is the proof of this? Who has he fought that would make a non holding back Surfer willing to use his full range of powers look like a wimp?

It's not that simple to just jump Superman over the High Herald tier because he has defeated character above that tier. Look at Thor for example. he has several showings of going well above his weight class, and winning. All the same, I really don't think that I am low balling Superman for saying that he requires a lot of evidence to suggest that he is a tier or two above Black Adam instead of being in the same tier.

People are debating blindly here. Superman is more than twice as powerful as Thor and Surfer yet many have arguments that they can beat Superman due to versatility.

Am I the only one who wants h1 to shut up?

Originally posted by long pig
Am I the only one who wants h1 to shut up?

Originally posted by Stoic
This brings up another question. Could the Probes have beaten groups of Low to High Herald (most being low)? We have no idea how a battle which pits Wonder Woman against Firelord would actually go. This is not to low ball, but an attempt to place things in a clearer perspective. Anyone can jump out of the bushes and make claims that Superman is an Odin level character while not holding back, but where is the proof of this? Who has he fought that would make a non holding back Surfer willing to use his full range of powers look like a wimp?

It's not that simple to just jump Superman over the High Herald tier because he has defeated character above that tier. Look at Thor for example. he has several showings of going well above his weight class, and winning. All the same, I really don't think that I am low balling Superman for saying that he requires a lot of evidence to suggest that he is a tier or two above Black Adam instead of being in the same tier.

Superman was slapping them in half like they were made of paper.

Darkseid is above the gods, and above Monitors, and above Lords of Order and Chaos and Superman is above him.
Doomsday was above Darkseid, and even Guardians of the Universe and Superman was above him.

etc etc.

Superman putting his mind to task is debatable the most unstoppable force in the DCU.