Originally posted by long piglet me make the distinction... i can understand liberals defending muslims from abuse/bigotry
Libbos defending muzzies is like blacks defending the kkk. Being liberal is literally a death sentence in islam.Shows their irrationality.
such as bardock's outrage over that muslim kid that was arrested or the liberals who defended the rights of muslims to have a mosque near ground zero in manhattan
that's just sticking up for pluralism and civil rights, and i agree with that
but i don't get why any left leaning or secular person tries to defend islam as an ideology. that's something different entirely.
i'm not saying there's nothing good to be found in islamic history or theology... but we should be honest about the flaws as well.
i'm not just talking in this thread or even on this website, it's something i've seen again and again
the common tactic is to deflect by attacking christianity or judaism instead of acknowledging the ideological conflicts between western values and some of the values endorsed by a good chunk of the muslim world
the mantra is "they're the same as christians or jews," but this is just a dogmatic talking point. because in terms of severity they're clearly not, not in the modern context anyway.
another one that always amused me was "it's cultural" in reference to any negative aspect of islam. this talking point comes directly from the dogmatic islamic narrative of the introduction of islam to saudi arabia.... as they tell it, arab culture was barbaric and cruel towards women, and the introduction of islam actually improved conditions for women. now i don't doubt that this was true, in the context of 7th century arabia. but we've evolved a bit since then...
but the reason this talking point is really misleading is because it pretends like islam and arab culture are two separate entities that have nothing to do with one another. which is, of course, another line of thinking that is taken directly from islamic theology. islam is supposed to be the universal religion, not racially or culturally oriented.
yet clearly in practice the spread of islam actually resulted in the spread of arab customs and culture. arabic is the only language that the quran is written in. converts to islam often adopt arab styles of dress despite the fact that the culture they live in doesn't dress that way. and of course muslims are encouraged to make hajj and visit saudi arabia at least once in their life. islam and arab culture go hand in hand.
and yet muslim apologists say "it's not islam, it's the culture!" and somehow this is less racist. cause it would be ethnocentric to associate these ideas and practices with islam... but denouncing arab culture is fine 😂
Originally posted by Slay
Or do statements like these show your inability to see the bigger picture?
Progressive libbos are anti establishment, anti Christian and anti white, they follow the rule of "an enemy of my enemy is my friend". It doesn't matter how disgusting and violent you are, all you have to do is hate who they hate and you're golden.
Try talking about white pride, American exceptionalism, Christian morality and watch the hate and vitriol rise to the top and run out of a libbos ears.
I see it daily on these forums.
Originally posted by red g jacks
let me make the distinction... i can understand liberals defending muslims from abuse/bigotrysuch as bardock's outrage over that muslim kid that was arrested or the liberals who defended the rights of muslims to have a mosque near ground zero in manhattan
that's just sticking up for pluralism and civil rights, and i agree with that
but i don't get why any left leaning or secular person tries to defend islam as an ideology. that's something different entirely.
i'm not saying there's nothing good to be found in islamic history or theology... but we should be honest about the flaws as well.
i'm not just talking in this thread or even on this website, it's something i've seen again and again
the common tactic is to deflect by attacking christianity or judaism instead of acknowledging the ideological conflicts between western values and some of the values endorsed by a good chunk of the muslim world
the mantra is "they're the same as christians or jews," but this is just a dogmatic talking point. because in terms of severity they're clearly not, not in the modern context anyway.
another one that always amused me was "it's cultural" in reference to any negative aspect of islam. this talking point comes directly from the dogmatic islamic narrative of the introduction of islam to saudi arabia.... as they tell it, arab culture was barbaric and cruel towards women, and the introduction of islam actually improved conditions for women. now i don't doubt that this was true, in the context of 7th century arabia. but we've evolved a bit since then...
but the reason this talking point is really misleading is because it pretends like islam and arab culture are two separate entities that have nothing to do with one another. which is, of course, another line of thinking that is taken directly from islamic theology. islam is supposed to be the universal religion, not racially or culturally oriented.
yet clearly in practice the spread of islam actually resulted in the spread of arab customs and culture. arabic is the only language that the quran is written in. converts to islam often adopt arab styles of dress despite the fact that the culture they live in doesn't dress that way. and of course muslims are encouraged to make hajj and visit saudi arabia at least once in their life. islam and arab culture go hand in hand.
and yet muslim apologists say "it's not islam, it's the culture!" and somehow this is less racist. cause it would be ethnocentric to associate these ideas and practices with islam... but denouncing arab culture is fine 😂
It's a shame not many people have been good Christians throughout Christianity's history. 🙂
Also Islam is expressly against the acts of terrorism committed by the radicals of the modern era.
http://www.juancole.com/2013/04/islamic-forbids-terrorism.html
Originally posted by FinalAnswer
It's a shame not many people have been good Christians throughout Christianity's history. 🙂Also Islam is expressly against the acts of terrorism committed by the radicals of the modern era.
http://www.juancole.com/2013/04/islamic-forbids-terrorism.html
It doesn't matter that Christians have twisted their bible. Their religion stayed the same.
It doesn't matter what Christians did 1000 years ago.
What matters is Muslims are doing it NOW, and their books say its OK.
😂 @ your source!! Do you even know what that is? It was an apologists list written on small fliers and handed out by hundreds of mosques around the world.....until every single point was thoroughly disproven or shown to be an outright lie. It was disproven so bad they stopped handing them out! 😂
Your source, eh?
Jihadis call American liberals useful fools. I see why.
Originally posted by long pig
You're coming across as willfully ignorant. Pay attention.It doesn't matter that Christians have twisted their bible. Their religion stayed the same.
It doesn't matter what Christians did 1000 years ago.
What matters is Muslims are doing it NOW, and their books say its OK.
I should be mention that the Bible has never been the highest authority when it comes to faith in christianity. Technically the christian tradition (which was originally used to build the Bible) has a higher degree of importance.
At this point in time and for more or less fixed theological reason, the Islam has no higher authority than their Holy Book. Although changing its interpretation has been a practice since the very beginning.
Originally posted by Bentleythat depends on your denomination, doesn't it..?
I should be mention that the Bible has never been the highest authority when it comes to faith in christianity. Technically the christian tradition (which was originally used to build the Bible) has a higher degree of importance.At this point in time and for more or less fixed theological reason, the Islam has no higher authority than their Holy Book. Although changing its interpretation has been a practice since the very beginning.
cause i've met a lot of christians who do regard the bible as more authoritative than 'tradition'
Originally posted by red g jacks
that depends on your denomination, doesn't it..?cause i've met a lot of christians who do regard the bible as more authoritative than 'tradition'
Yes those exist I think. There are a lot of divergences in christianity so it's to be expected.
Even before the Bible there were christians that disregarded tradition and were considered in heresy. Everytime christianity has been succesful in a new community it has spawned new heresies and variants. I believe this comes with the territory and is the rationale to have tradition as the highest canon.
Originally posted by long pig
You're coming across as willfully ignorant. Pay attention.It doesn't matter that Christians have twisted their bible. Their religion stayed the same.
It doesn't matter what Christians did 1000 years ago.
What matters is Muslims are doing it NOW, and their books say its OK.
😂 @ your source!! Do you even know what that is? It was an apologists list written on small fliers and handed out by hundreds of mosques around the world.....until every single point was thoroughly disproven or shown to be an outright lie. It was disproven so bad they stopped handing them out! 😂
Your source, eh?
Jihadis call American liberals useful fools. I see why.
When the majority of Christendom is a lair of bloodthirsty murderers, and their head of religion calls for the deaths of infidels, Christianity becomes violent 🙂
Prove it was disproven, my link contains direct quotes from the Quran 🙂
I'm not American.
Originally posted by Bentley
Yes those exist I think. There are a lot of divergences in christianity so it's to be expected.Even before the Bible there were christians that disregarded tradition and were considered in heresy. Everytime christianity has been succesful in a new community it has spawned new heresies and variants. I believe this comes with the territory and is the rationale to have tradition as the highest canon.
Yes, they sure do. Southern Baptists (which is what my beliefs resembles more than any other denominations) believe that the Bible is the infallible Word of God. All of it. From the creation and Garden of Eden all the way up to the end of Revelations. Any denomination that doesn't believe in the Bible fully I have a hard time trusting and will always be suspicious of when they call themselves "Christians".
Originally posted by Star428
Yes, they sure do. Southern Baptists (which is what my beliefs resembles more than any other denominations) believe that the Bible is the infallible Word of God. All of it. From the creation and Garden of Eden all the way up to the end of Revelations. Any denomination that doesn't believe in the Bible fully I have a hard time trusting and will always be suspicious of when they call themselves "Christians".
Originally posted by Bardock42
How do you deal with th extremely contradictory nature of the Bible if you take everything at face value?
What's the contradictions your speaking of?
Originally posted by long pig
Let's see if we can figure out those contradictions. I'm no Christian, but I know a little bit about a little bit. There are a few, but most are misunderstandings.What's the contradictions your speaking of?
I am aware that you can explain away literally every contradiction in everything if you just apply the power of delusion to its full extend. But, if you take the words at face value, like Star seems to say Christians should that seems harder.
But idk, how about this list: http://www.answering-christianity.com/101_bible_contradictions.htm
Originally posted by Bardock42
I am aware that you can explain away literally every contradiction in everything if you just apply the power of delusion to its full extend. But, if you take the words at face value, like Star seems to say Christians should that seems harder.But idk, how about this list: http://www.answering-christianity.com/101_bible_contradictions.htm
Originally posted by Bardock42
I am aware that you can explain away literally every contradiction in everything if you just apply the power of delusion to its full extend. But, if you take the words at face value, like Star seems to say Christians should that seems harder.But idk, how about this list: http://www.answering-christianity.com/101_bible_contradictions.htm
While there are some good examples in there, the list probably need a better rationale for some. Example:
What was the name of King Abijahs mother?
• Michaiah, daughter of Uriel of Gibeah (2 Chronicles 13:2)
• Maachah, daughter of Absalom (2 Chronicles 11:20) But Absalom had only one daughter whose name was Tamar (2 Samuel 14:27)
In the ancient times daughter could be applied to several types of parenting and not just father/spawn relationships.