Vegito Vs Whis

Originally posted by One Big Mob
Except when you blatantly ignore the fact that Beerus effortlessly beat the shit out of Mystic Gohan in all 3 versions of the fight.

Also Base Vegito was only seen in the anime. And if you're using the anime then I have no idea how you'd figure Base Vegito was only Gohan level when he beat the Christ out of Buuhan.

Also I'm curious how you rationalize keeping everyone the same power level 2 years later but ignore Gohan losing to Beerus since I already know what your excuse will be.

And you're ignoring the fact that Gohan lost a RIDICULOUS amount of power from the Buu saga, to BOTG's. Hell, less than a year after that, Gohan had ALREADY lost the ability to go Mystic AND SSJ2. He was BARELY able to go SSJ1. And let's not forget that Frieza's FIRST form KILLED his base form with a SINGLE punch. That kind of reduction in strength can DEFINITELY account for the difference between him and Beerus. Let's also not forget that Gotenks did better in base form than Mystic Gohan did. That ALONE proves how much weaker Gohan got from the Buu saga to then.

Originally posted by bbrem123
How bout we look at all the posts before countering an argument 🙂

You are not even close with anything here. You are the one praising statements. It has been said manyyyy times that Beerus is the strongest in the universe.

Last time I checked, Vegetto didn't exist in the universe any more. 👆

Vegeta SSJ2 damaged Beerus, and in Dragon Ball Super, managed to keep up with 10% Beerus, and even surprise him a few times.

Wrong on both accounts. Vegeta didn't damage Beerus at all, and when he upped his power to 10%, he walked through Vegeta's galick gun and outed him with a tap.

Y
So the most logical assumption is that SSJ2 enraged Vegeta is around equal to 5% Beerus,

Could poke holes all over this, but let's go with that, sure.

meaning that SSJ3 Goku would probably be around 4% Beerus,

Uh, not if 5% Beerus is roflstomping SSJ3 Gotenks and FP Gohan LOL.

Super Buu was 8 times more powerful than SSJ3 Goku.

*Still* not convinced at all. And kek @ everything you said after this; not even worth dignifying with a response.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Wrong on both accounts. Vegeta didn't damage Beerus at all, and when he upped his power to 10%, he walked through Vegeta's galick gun and outed him with a tap.

Could poke holes all over this, but let's go with that, sure.

Uh, not if 5% Beerus is roflstomping SSJ3 Gotenks and FP Gohan LOL.

*Still* not convinced at all. And kek @ everything you said after this; not even worth dignifying with a response.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Wrong on both accounts. Vegeta didn't damage Beerus at all, and when he upped his power to 10%, he walked through Vegeta's galick gun and outed him with a tap.

Vegeta damaged him several times while they were fighting. But it doesn't take someone being a hundred times stronger than you, to walk through your attack. Like how Nappa walked through all of Piccolo's attacks, despite being only around twice as strong as him.

Or how SSJ2 Gohan was less than twice as strong as Perfect Cell, yet managed to rofl-stomp him as bad as Final form Frieza did Vegeta.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Uh, not if 5% Beerus is roflstomping SSJ3 Gotenks and FP Gohan LOL.

Beerus didn't even fight SSJ3 Gotenks in BOTG's, and Gotenks only fought in base form, in DBS. And Mystic Gohan was INCOMPARABLY weaker in BOTG's/DBS compared to DBZ. In DBZ, he was nearly twice as strong as SSJ3 Gotenks and Super Buu, but in DBS, he did worse against Beerus than Base Gotenks did. And let's also not forget that he was ONE-SHOTTED by First form Frieza, in ROF, and even lost the ability to go mystic, or SSJ2, and nearly SSJ1, in like 10 months, was it?

Originally posted by NewGuy01
*Still* not convinced at all. And kek @ everything you said after this; not even worth dignifying with a response.

What? Super Buu was 8 times more powerful than SSJ3 Goku. This is simple mathematics. If SSJ2 enraged Vegeta was around 5% Beerus level, and he did just a bit better than SSJ3 Goku, ACCORDING TO BEERUS HIMSELF, than SSJ3 Goku could be reasonably put at a 4% Beerus level, right?

And Gotenks and Gohan didn't even do half as well as Goku did. Even then though, SSJ3 is a 4X boost to SSJ2, meaning that SSJ2 Goku/Vegeta(without the rage boost) would both only be around equal to 1% Beerus. So simple math puts Super Buu at a MINIMUM of 32% Beerus level. And Mystic Gohan was nearly twice as strong as him, so 60% isn't a stretch, considering Buutenks would be at LEAST 64%. That's honestly a lowball, considering Mystic Gohan from DBZ DID manage to put up a good fight against Buutenks. But I understand that lowballs are necessary when we have to assume things.

Either way though, Vegetto in base was stronger than Mystic Gohan. Meaning that even if he was just so slightly enough stronger than him to be still considered a 60% Beerus, his SSJ would be 30 times stronger than Beerus.

I think you are confused to what is canon and what isn't ^

Originally posted by bbrem123
I think you are confused to what is canon and what isn't ^

You're not even making an argument.

I'm just gonna assume that you're done here, because you're not adding anything of value to the conversation here, whatsoever.

you are using BoG as proof when it is not even canon any longer. Shows how good you are at debating...

You do know Mystic Gohan is is full potiental. He he can go in that form he is at his max.

10% Beerus>>>>>>>>Enrage Vegeta >>Mysitc Gohan

We dont know how much power Beerus was using he fought Goku and the Z-fighters. You are making up numbers. All we know is 10% Beerus sh*tstomps Enraged Vegeta(who was far stonger than any other hero including Goku and Mystic Gohan) with a flick. Which is similar to the owning Frieza gave Nail.

Originally posted by bbrem123
you are using BoG as proof when it is not even canon any longer. Shows how good you are at debating...

You do know Mystic Gohan is is full potiental. He he can go in that form he is at his max.

10% Beerus>>>>>>>>Enrage Vegeta >>Mysitc Gohan

We dont know how much power Beerus was using he fought Goku and the Z-fighters. You are making up numbers. All we know is 10% Beerus sh*tstomps Enraged Vegeta(who was far stonger than any other hero including Goku and Mystic Gohan) with a flick. Which is similar to the owning Frieza gave Nail.

Shows how good you are at debating. Using DBS as the only cannon furthers my purpose even more, because Base Gotenks was stronger than Mystic Gohan. Proving how much weaker he had gotten.

And Mystic Gohan most definitely still went Super Saiyan, you idiot. What are you even arguing here?

10% Beerus was still knocked around by Vegeta's blows. Frieza literally took all of Nail's attacks without getting a scratch, or even flinching.

Bills was moved by, and even caused to wince by Vegeta's attacks. The beating that is similar to is the one that SSJ2 Gohan gave Perfect Cell. And SSJ2 Gohan was less than twice as strong as Perfect Cell. Proving that 10% Beerus =< Twice as strong as Enraged Vegeta, making Enraged Vegeta >= 5% Beerus. Simple math, idiot.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Shows how good you are at debating. Using DBS as the only cannon furthers my purpose even more, because Base Gotenks was stronger than Mystic Gohan. Proving how much weaker he had gotten.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
And Mystic Gohan most definitely still went Super Saiyan, you idiot. What are you even arguing here?

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta

10% Beerus was still knocked around by Vegeta's blows. Frieza literally took all of Nail's attacks without getting a scratch, or even flinching.

You are the only one arguing these points. Keep it up though

Originally posted by bbrem123
DBS anime and manga are equal when it comes to what is canon. Making the events in the movie no longer canon. Sorry if you dont like it...

What I am saying that he was not de-powered like you are implying

I just said I'm perfectly fine with only using DBS. It helps prove my point even further. Sounds like someone is regretting his decision.

I am implying NOTHING. It is FACT that Mystic Gohan was ONE-SHOTTED by Beerus, and BASE Gotenks took DOZENS of hits from him. So Base Gotenks is STRONGER than Mystic Gohan, according to DBS, which PROVES how much weaker he had gotten. And it was also even furthered in ROF, so I don't know what your point is here.

Originally posted by bbrem123
Beerus was annoyed with how how weak Vegeta was. Knocking around means absolutely nothing.

And SSJ2 Gohan was annoyed by how weak Perfect Cell was. Knocking around DEFINITELY means something, considering that, if Beerus could have, he would have just sat there without moving, while tanking everything Vegeta threw at him. But he was stunned by several blows, even if they didn't damage him. Meaning that he FELT them. So he was definitely not more than twice as strong as enraged Vegeta. As I have just proven several times. 👆

Whis can KO Beerus with a casual blow. Beerus would stomp Vegito/Gogeta... Rule of deduction says Whis take this.

Great thread. 👆

Originally posted by Galan007
Whis stomps. 👆

Originally posted by Galan007
Whis can KO Beerus with a casual blow. Beerus would stomp Vegito/Gogeta... Rule of deduction says Whis take this.

Great thread. 👆

Get out of here, Galan. Stop acting like Vegetto and Gogeta are equals, before I send you back here.

Saying that Beerus would win doesn't make it true. Give proof, or stop whining.

Galan be my guest with this debate. I am not going to waste my time. Kid is in denial or something.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Get out of here, Galan. Stop acting like Vegetto and Gogeta are equals, before I send you back here.

Saying that Beerus would win doesn't make it true. Give proof, or stop whining.

Anyway, I never said that Vegetto and Gogeta are equals, lol. In fact, it was I who originally proved that Vegetto(Potara)>>Gogeta(Metamoran):
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=613242&pagenumber=1
(about 5 posts down)
I merely stated that Beerus would be > either of them, based on the info we've been given to date.

Aside from the fact that Goku stated in both BoG and DBS that Beerus>>a fusion between he and Vegeta, Toriyama also stated in an official interview that Beerus>>ANYONE we had EVER seen in DBZ, up to the events of BoG... And absolutely NO legitimate(key word) evidence contradicts his statement. IOW, Beerus>>Vegetto by proxy. Toriyama's word>>>>your baseless claims.

...And Whis is 50% more powerful than even Beerus. But yeah, stay on that high-horse of yours. 👆

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
And you're ignoring the fact that Gohan lost a RIDICULOUS amount of power from the Buu saga, to BOTG's. Hell, less than a year after that, Gohan had ALREADY lost the ability to go Mystic AND SSJ2. He was BARELY able to go SSJ1. And let's not forget that Frieza's FIRST form KILLED his base form with a SINGLE punch. That kind of reduction in strength can DEFINITELY account for the difference between him and Beerus. Let's also not forget that Gotenks did better in base form than Mystic Gohan did. That ALONE proves how much weaker Gohan got from the Buu saga to then.

What happened later has no bearing on what happened then. The fact that he still could go mystic proves it's irrelevant. The difference between RoF and Bog is that there is zero evidence Gohan was hindered in any way during BoG and still had his most powerful transformation. You're using huge assumptions on your part.

Gotenks did terrible though. He got beat by being tapped on the wrist and flicked. He's also the only one Beerus let hit him, and he did nothing in likely hundreds of punches. Might as well take another extreme and say Bulma did better too. Hell base Gotenks did better than SS3 Goku as well I guess. Goku must have gotten a massive reduction.
And if we ignore Gohan because of your fantasies, then why don't we deal with Goku who a year earlier (and Goku trained hard since then) was more powerful by a large degree than SS Gotenks in Goku's SS form. Which would make his ss3 form more powerful than Gotenks' max as well. Which means when Goku got flicked and touched on the shoulder by Beerus and almost died that he was at the very least Super Buu level. Which means he was at 32 percent Beerus level when that happened. Which contradicts Beerus at 10 percent saying Vegeta was more powerful than Goku before he one shotted Vegeta.
How does that work?

Like I expected though, you jumped straight into "no training" for Gohan, yet you maintain the position that the Z fighters gained zero power in that 2 years. Super Buu is 32 percent Beerus afterall 😂

Ok well I guess this thread is over.

Originally posted by One Big Mob
You have absolutely no proof that he lost any power. His mystic form was a static powerup that was never proven to gain a reduction in power. In fact, the entire point of the transformation was to bring out his full power.

With regards to the time frame of "for the first time in 39 years", the movie's setting is after the defeat of Majin Buu, and also prior to the final chapter. Why is it that you chose this period?

AT: When I decided, "For this movie, let's go with the whole cast!" I thought, "What era would be best?" If it's a few years after the "Majin Buu arc", then almost all the cast members are at MAX strength...

-Source

So yeah, it is perfectly logical to assume Mystic Gohan was still at his Boo-era-levels when Beerus stomped him. 👆