Originally posted by PlacidityGohan when he headbutted Radditz. It ranged from 1, to 710, to 1307 at it's highest. And he starts out at 1 when he isn't angry.
I don't think there has ever been even anything close to a 2X boost.
Originally posted by Galan007To be fair Gotenks didn't power up to ssj3. And Gohan, well Gohan attacked after Bills was already fighting and angry so he wouldn't really care.
This definitely appeared to be the case, imo. SSJ3 Goku actually managed to shock/impress Beerus and Whis to an extent. Gotenks and Gohan obviously did not.
Originally posted by Galan007Not saying Goku isn't top dog (since Vegeta already said he was the most powerful) but there's a valid explanation there.
This definitely appeared to be the case, imo. SSJ3 Goku actually managed to shock/impress Beerus and Whis to an extent. Gotenks and Gohan obviously did not.
Goku was probably the fastest/strongest guy Beerus has fought in centuries. His surprise would have likely wore off after seeing that even if everyone else was about equal. You can't just complement every powerful being once the shock wears off.
Plus he was kind of pissed off. Goku was just a sparring match while everyone else was a gangbang.
And then Vegeta, but that's another story, though it begs the question of what sort of being would have ever been Raged Vegeta level considering Beerus said it's been a while since he had to use that much power.
Originally posted by Placidity
I only watch the anime, so I guess that doesn't apply to most people.But when has that been demonstrated?
I guess Vegeta just wasn't angry enough. Otherwise he could beat Beerus, Whis, SSG Goku together and any other character you can think of in his base form if only he was real mad.
Gohan vs Raditz.
And nah. That would only be the case of Whis/Beerus had power levels. Their Ki being undetectable implies there is no system of measurement capable of dealing with it.
Besides my point wasn't that Vegeta powered himself by a thousand fold. Rather than rage in this story can yield stupidly good results.
Originally posted by One Big MobWhile I still think Toriyama's intent was for SSJ3 Goku to be > the rest of the Z Fighters(sans rage-boosted Vegeta), this is a good explanation. 👆
Not saying Goku isn't top dog (since Vegeta already said he was the most powerful) but there's a valid explanation there.Goku was probably the fastest/strongest guy Beerus has fought in centuries. His surprise would have likely wore off after seeing that even if everyone else was about equal. You can't just complement every powerful being once the shock wears off.
Plus he was kind of pissed off. Goku was just a sparring match while everyone else was a gangbang.And then Vegeta, but that's another story, though it begs the question of what sort of being would have ever been Raged Vegeta level considering Beerus said it's been a while since he had to use that much power.
Originally posted by Galan007
While I still think Toriyama's intent was for SSJ3 Goku to be > the rest of the Z Fighters(sans rage-boosted Vegeta), this is a good explanation. 👆
^ 👆
That's obvious: Ssj3 Goku > everyone bar enraged Vegeta.
Gohan and the others are fodder, I myself am very surprised that AT and his crew even bothered to spend time drawing them...
Also, you see in BoG and DBS Gohan with black hair and say "oh, there's Chou Gohan", but actually this is all false: Ultimate Gohan isn't even worth to be remembered in AT's mind, and they confirmed this to us when during the BoG preview, they released the trailer of the film with Beerus putting down Ssj Gohan, and it has been the fans that had to step up and remember Toei and the producers that Gohan should have been "mystic".
This is exactly what makes me sick about the new DB material: AT miliking Goku and Vegeta's popularity, forgetting everything else he wrote in his own manga, when he and his manga actually were at their true prime; while writing DB and DBZ he never did this, everything was correlated and there always was an explanation for each fact/statement, while now, on the contrary, everything is basically thrown out there randomly.
This really is a sad thing, if you ask me. 🙁
Originally posted by NewGuy01
The way Bills dealt with SS3 Goku, SS3 Gotenks, Ult. Gohan, and Boo were all pretty solid indicators. In the ballpark of 5% of his max, he humiliated all four of them in what may be the most one-sided collection of curbstomps of the entire mythos.Could SSJ1 Vegito do that? I have no doubt. Could he stand against max Bills, who's 15-20x that, though? Not even close. Even with an 8x powerup, I suspect he wouldn't be up to it; Whis being far and away Bills' superior, I rest my case.
Even if Vegito could match Whis' power, his knowledge and combat skills are leagues greater than anybody else's, and he can turn back time. :-p
That's a good explanation 👆 I can roll with that.
Originally posted by Sj_Sharp
^ 👆That's obvious: Ssj3 Goku > everyone bar enraged Vegeta.
Gohan and the others are fodder, I myself am very surprised that AT and his crew even bothered to spend time drawing them...Also, you see in BoG and DBS Gohan with black hair and say "oh, there's Chou Gohan", but actually this is all false: Ultimate Gohan isn't even worth to be remembered in AT's mind, and they confirmed this to us when during the BoG preview, they released the trailer of the film with Beerus putting down Ssj Gohan, and it has been the fans that had to step up and remember Toei and the producers that Gohan should have been "mystic".
This is exactly what makes me sick about the new DB material: AT miliking Goku and Vegeta's popularity, forgetting everything else he wrote in his own manga, when he and his manga actually were at their true prime; while writing DB and DBZ he never did this, everything was correlated and there always was an explanation for each fact/statement, while now, on the contrary, everything is basically thrown out there randomly.
This really is a sad thing, if you ask me. 🙁
That's so dumb. Mystic Gohan would have pulled ssj3 Goku, he used to be such a threat. The way awesome characters get turned to fodder has always bothered me about DB.
Originally posted by Damborgson
That's so dumb. Mystic Gohan would have pulled ssj3 Goku, he used to be such a threat. The way awesome characters get turned to fodder has always bothered me about DB.
Yeah that's right: Chou Gohan would have casually ended Ssj3 Goku's life back in the Boo saga, there was a gap of many orders of magnitude in power between them.
However, for the rest, I'm not sure I completely agree; what I mean is that there has always been some kind of explanation behind each fact.
For example:
- The humans became complete fodder after the Freeza's arc; about this I'd honestly say they stayed relevant for even too much time, since AT made them compete fairly against crazy powerful aliens (look at Krilin on Namek), and it honestly would be ridiculous for them to challenge a super saiyan. They surpassed Roshi and even Kami (Earth's God) by a huge amount, and even Yamcha would effortlessly bust the Moon or small planets: I'd say it's more than enough power for a human...
- Piccolo is an abomination: Namekians aren't a race of warriors, he is basically an exception to said rule and he is three guys fused in one person; he reaches and surpasses the level of Semi-Perfect Cell and he can thus compete against Assj. Isn't this an absurd amount of power? It really wouldn't make sense IMHO to push him even further and make him even with Ssj2 or dare I say Ssj3 tiers of power.
- The same Gohan, after the Cell Games, became weaker during the 7 years of peace by a quite decent amount, but it was explained to us that such a fact happened because he didn't train and he thus was rusty.
I could go on and on with this: in a nutshell, what I'm saying is that the manga always gives a valid explanation for everything.
On the other hand, in the new movies and in DBS everything is random: AT stated that he chosen the reference time to be exactly after the Boo saga, because each character was at his maximum; this is true, but why oh why is then freakin Chou Gohan (a guy who could beat to a pulp with his bare hand someone like Super Boo, while Goku and Vegeta, to even stand a chance against him, would have had to fuse into Gogeta..) is treated like shit/fodder without no reason nor a remotely decent explanation?
The answer is simple: AT is milking and providing fan service, and the very great majority of fans don't care about Gohan, only thing they want to see is Goku there and Vegeta that, the rest to them is inconsequential.
What a shame. 😘
I think Vegeta was definitely weaker than Gohan, until his rage boost. As for Goku, I still hold the position that the difference between him and Gohan in the Boo Saga was overblown in the first place. Seeing how Goku became stronger over the gap, and Gohan has at best remained stagnant, it makes sense that he could have surpassed him. It's admittedly a little silly, but justifiable.
Originally posted by NewGuy01👆
I think Vegeta was definitely weaker than Gohan, until his rage boost. As for Goku, I still hold the position that the difference between him and Gohan in the Boo Saga was overblown in the first place. Seeing how Goku became stronger over the gap, and Gohan has at best remained stagnant, it makes sense that he could have surpassed him. It's admittedly a little silly, but justifiable.
Originally posted by carver9Then you have 5 evil saiyans create an evil SSG.
Someone need to make a wish using the Dragonballs to wish the Saiyan race and planet back. That would be amazing imo.
The saiyan race as a whole has sooo much potential. Crazy they stayed dead throughout all of DB.
Still wish they would bring back the saiyan tails as well. It was the key to there (hidden) power