Vitiate vs Sidious vs Luke (Force Only)

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Because a living person with midichlorians and a connection to the Force doesn't translate to a object like a sword. 😬

Mmm. So having midi-chlorians and a connection to the Force suddenly means you can't be targeted by a Force power? Ant, stop being facetious.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
1. Well yeah, but in terms of sheer mastery of force powers, the concealment is concealment, and the force is the most difficult to master dark side power in history.

2. Pushing Sidious probably won't stop an "instant" force storm. Hell, I wonder why Luke didn't think of that in DE :mmm:

The question is whether or not Luke will overwhelm Palpatine with light, which I doubt he will.

3. Ant stomp.

1. The point was that in terms of overall Force Mastery, Palpatine isn't Luke's better. Using a destructive power isn't comparable, especially since we have no comparisons to judge Luke by since he doesn't use such destructive powers.

2. Maybe because he wasn't powerful enough, lol. It can distract/hurt Palpatine, especially if he gets pushed hard enough into a cliff face or something.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Indeed.

However, it is important to concentrate on the specifics.

Darth Sidious performed Consume Life Essence on Byss. However, it is unclear whether he mastered other forms of Force Drain powers or not insofar.

In contrast, Vitiate have performed different expressions of Force Drain.

Vitiate had siphoned a great amount of energy from earlier developments so it wasn't impractical for him to unleash Force Drain of apocalyptic magnitude afterwards.

1. I should think he did, considering he possessed the Holocron of Naga Sadow who knew Drain. And he's learnt from a monumental variety of other ancient Sith holocrons/texts which are bound to include other variants of Drain. That's why he's rumored to know every power.

2. Right, but he won't be able to replicate such a thing here. He hasn't prepped by siphoning energy earlier.

Originally posted by Sinious
If Vitiate could unleash it with a gesture, he would've used that to get out of many bad situations he could not.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Mmm. So having midi-chlorians and a connection to the Force suddenly means you can't be targeted by a Force power? Ant, stop being facetious.

Wait...

You are seriously arguing Luke can Force Fold Palpatine?

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
...

Wait...

You are seriously arguing Luke can Force Fold Palpatine?

How is it that you read the most retarded things in somebody's post? I'm talking about Luke himself, since he has control over his own body.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Its the same as Darth Sidious not Force-Storming Luke Skywalker in direct manner.

1. It's not just the destructive capacity, but the difficulty of mastering the force storm is pretty well documented.

2. My b, I misinterpreted your argument their. Yet still, I'm not sure TK will stop Palpatine's instantaneous force storm. He'd need to be overwhelmed with sufficient light side energies, and I don't think Luke could pull that off alone. And pushing Palpatine away will make his force storm all the easier with Valkorion walking around.

Originally posted by SunRazer
1. I should think he did, considering he possessed the Holocron of Naga Sadow who knew Drain. And he's learnt from a monumental variety of other ancient Sith holocrons/texts which are bound to include other variants of Drain. That's why he's rumored to know every power.

I don't recall Naga Sadow experimenting with Dark Side powers like Vitiate and Nathema event was never documented.

Originally posted by SunRazer
2. Right, but he won't be able to replicate such a thing here. He hasn't prepped by siphoning energy earlier.

FYI, Darth Bane was able to conjure a Deadly Field of 30 feet in diameter by drawing on the power of a nearby nexus in split-second.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
1. It's not just the destructive capacity, but the difficulty of mastering the force storm is pretty well documented.

2. My b, I misinterpreted your argument their. Yet still, I'm not sure TK will stop Palpatine's instantaneous force storm. He'd need to be overwhelmed with sufficient light side energies, and I don't think Luke could pull that off alone. And pushing Palpatine away will make his force storm all the easier with Valkorion walking around.

1. And you suspect Luke isn't capable of mastering it if he was a dark sider? I disagree. He's demonstrated the ability to affect the fabric of space and utilize galactic/trans-dimensional powers before. I see no reason as to why he wouldn't be able to master that.

2. Pushing Sidious into something with enough force to break his concentration is all Luke needs to make him lose control over the Storm. And Force Light is going to have some effect, undoubtedly, since Luke is so powerful. And provided Valkorion is also attacking Sidious or both Luke and Sidious, there's no way Sidious will maintain control over his Wormhole.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Palpatine is not touted to have knowledge of every known Force power ever devised, he is rumored to have knowledge of majority at best.

I don't recall Naga Sadow experimenting with Dark Side powers like Vitiate and Nathema event was never documented.

Vitiate needs to conjure a Deadly Field that spans the setting. I think he can manage this easily.

FYI, Darth Bane was able to conjure a Deadly Field of 30 feet in diameter by drawing on the power of a nearby nexus in split-second.

1. A vast majority. He's also discovered previously unknown powers and invented ones at his leisure. That's probably going to cover Drain.

2. I never said he used anything like the Nathema ritual, which isn't relevant to this fight in the slightest. However, he knows Drain, and that's all that's needed. The point is that Sidious has studied from various Force users who have known Drain. There's no reason to suspect Sidious is incapable of using the power himself.

3. And Sidious isn't capable of using Death Field? He's inherited all the knowledge of the Banite Sith, meaning that what Bane knows, he knows. Besides, he has access to Bane's "Rule of Two' compendium in his Book of Sith, so yeah, he knows how to use Drain. And Bane's shortcomings won't be relevant to him.

How do you propose Vitiate would win the first round, by the way? Because summoning a Death Field on short notice would be great against Meetra/Revan/Scourge, a trio which Vitiate was genuinely wary of.

Originally posted by Sinious
Sidious usually forces his enemies into duels and once he lost to Luke, he did rely on his haxx power.

Originally posted by Sinious
Vitiate never used drain in combat.

/looks at LeGenD's profile signature.

1. I suspect so. Palpatine's been dickriding lore for the majority of his existence, his supposed mastery of almost every known force power and suppoaed ability to devise new ones reflects that.

2. Pretty sure a force push from DE Luke would have, "broken Sidious's concentration" too. He probably didnt try that because it's not enough to distract him, you have to overwhelm him. Force light will undoubtedly have its effect, but I doubt it will overwhelm Wankatine altogether. valkorion' presence would equally be hindering Luke's ability to stop Sidious from lol storming. I'm going to bed tbh

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
1. I suspect so. Palpatine's been dickriding lore for the majority of his existence, his supposed mastery of almost every known force power and suppoaed ability to devise new ones reflects that.

2. Pretty sure a force push from DE Luke would have, "broken Sidious's concentration" too. He probably didnt try that because it's not enough to distract him, you have to overwhelm him. Force light will undoubtedly have its effect, but I doubt it will overwhelm Wankatine altogether. valkorion' presence would equally be hindering Luke's ability to stop Sidious from lol storming. I'm going to bed tbh

1. And Luke shares a vast majority (if not all) of Anakin's Force potential, the greatest in all of history against which even Palpatine's pales to in comparison. Luke's demonstrated insane mastery in Control, Sense and Alter, and in a huge range of Force powers. Palpatine's greater lore base grants him greater Force knowledge, not mastery. Sure, knowledge can lead to mastery, but based on showings Palpatine isn't more masterful than Luke.

2. So even if he was being slammed through a wall it wouldn't affect his Concentration? Don't be silly. And Luke's TK improved vastly in the decades following DE.

3. Valkorion would also be attacking Palpatine, and if you think the combined strength of Luke's Force Light and Valkorion's attacks can't distract Palpatine from controlling his Wormholes properly, then yeah, you're reaching profusely.

PMS MAH NIQQA

Originally posted by SunRazer
1. A vast majority. He's also discovered previously unknown powers and invented ones at his leisure. That's probably going to cover Drain.

I find it rather funny, that the not-canon game statistics in the "Dark Empire Sourcebook" are still paraphrased (in this case) or quoted, in order to grant Sidious a nice arsenal of Force powers. That is a sentence designed to give game masters a card blanche should players attempt to attack Sidious and not something to be used when discussing Sidious actual powers.

2. I never said he used anything like the Nathema ritual, which isn't relevant to this fight in the slightest. However, he knows Drain, and that's all that's needed. The point is that Sidious has studied from various Force users who have known Drain. There's no reason to suspect Sidious is incapable of using the power himself.

Given that he drained power from the people on Byss, he is obviously capable of draining force energy to some extend. Whether or not that can be applicated in combat or not is everyones guess.

3. And Sidious isn't capable of using Death Field? He's inherited all the knowledge of the Banite Sith, meaning that what Bane knows, he knows. Besides, he has access to Bane's "Rule of Two' compendium in his Book of Sith, so yeah, he knows how to use Drain. And Bane's shortcomings won't be relevant to him.

That he inherited the knowledge doesn't mean that he also put it to use (meaning: that he took the knowledge to master the respective ability). And I find it rather senseless to argue what powers an individual could have known when there is no instance of them using that power. Which is also a point to criticize the aformentioned statement in the "Dark Empire Sourcebook". You can equip Sidious with nigh endless force abilities, but if he only uses Force Lightning and Telekinesis in combat, I don't see much reason for arguing that he might turn his opponents into sheep using Sith Magic or that he could possible drain them.

How do you propose Vitiate would win the first round, by the way? Because summoning a Death Field on short notice would be great against Meetra/Revan/Scourge, a trio which Vitiate was genuinely wary of.

This is still the guy that reduced an entire generation of Dark Council members to ash in a flash of lightning on the steps of his Citadel and who managed to mind dominate Malak and Revan at the same point with casual ease. The question should be: How do you think Luke or Sidious would win this, when all we know so far suggests that Vitiate could just dominate their minds, make them fight eachother and then kill the one left standing without a fight?

On a sidenote:

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
With the galaxy now ripe for conquest, the Emperor has become the most powerful Sith Lord of all and a master of the Dark Side of the Force, ordering the extermination of the Jedi Order with the aid of his apprentice, the deadly Darth Vader.
Source: Legends Epic Collection: The Empire Volume 1

This is the same kind of nonsense that is used to "prove" Sidious "superiority" over other Sith more than a decade.

Of course Sidious, considering all aspects of his power (military, political), is the most powerful Sith Lord ever. He reigns the Galaxy for two decades. But even here, they make a clear cut between this part and his force abilities by giving a seperate statement, that he is "a master of the Dark Side of the Force", meaning that the "most powerful Sith Lord" was clearly not refering to his Force abilities.

So it's still everyones guess who the most powerful Sith Lord in terms of Force powers would be.

Actually, LeLand Chee has been on record saying that RPG stats/powers are canon because it's based on what's already known of the characters.

GIVE ME THAT ****ING QUOTE NOW.