With regards to the second one there- yes, minor gun control laws will not really solve any problems.
But no nation ever goes from the 'as totally open as you can reasonably get' gun laws of the US to total restriction in one bound. Gun control laws in the US are a vast edifice that need to be chipped away at. Once you start chipping, the idea will get increased acceptance.
Originally posted by Flyattractor
[b]Or the reverse will happen and the stand against the tyrannical actions of a unlawful government will meet a strengthened resistance.But yean. Politicians do love that Nickel & Dime crap.
[/B]
Originally posted by Flyattractor
[b]Or the reverse will happen and the stand against the tyrannical actions of a unlawful government will meet a strengthened resistance.But yean. Politicians do love that Nickel & Dime crap.
[/B]
By what possible logic can you call elected bodies enacting tighter gun control laws via a legislative process either tyranny or unlawful?
You're just throwing around these words with no possible meaning behind them now. It contains no logic and bears no resemblance to reality.
Originally posted by Flyattractor
[b]Or the reverse will happen and the stand against the tyrannical actions of a unlawful government will meet a strengthened resistance. [/B]
👆
That's the much more likely scenario, imo. Ush, like most other europeans, still doesn't get it. This is America. Guns are here to stay and nothing they say or do will change that. Americans will never "accept it" (gun ban) because there's still way too many of us who understand what a terrible mistake it'd be to get the second amendment ratified.
I do so enjoy though reading europeans making claims that guns will be banned here eventually when they don't even realize how important our right to bear arms is to us. Congress cannot legally change or ban the second amendment. It can only be ratified by a 3/4 state majority vote which I'm pretty sure will never happen.
Originally posted by Star428
👆That's the much more likely scenario, imo. Ush, like most other europeans, still doesn't get it. This is America. Guns are here to stay and nothing they say or do will change that. Americans will never "accept it" (gun ban) because there's still way too many of us who understand what a terrible mistake it'd be to get the second amendment ratified.
I do so enjoy though reading europeans making claims that guns will be banned here eventually when they don't even realize how important our right to bear arms is to us. Congress cannot legally change or ban the second amendment. It can only be ratified by a 3/4 state majority vote which I'm pretty sure will never happen.
He said restrictions, not banning in his last post.
Originally posted by Ushgarak
By what possible logic can you call elected bodies enacting tighter gun control laws via a legislative process either tyranny or unlawful?
Actually, the logic is not all that hard to understand.
Written into the Constitution itself, if memory serves, is the idea that an armed citizenry makes the best safeguard against tyranny.
Any person taught that in school, and raised on tales of individual heroism and patriotism, as many in America are,will tend to view government regulation as a hidden, residual threat, merely waiting for the right conditions, historically economic, and the wrong people in power to bring about an inexorable rush to a totalitarian state. Happened in Germany, after all (mentioned because I actually see it listed as the headlining topic in this forum today, unbelievably) ...
Twice.
Also, in line with your "chipping" reference, many in America ALSO receive a steady diet of inspirational quotes like the following, which, if you combine with the knowledge of what I just said above, should make this kind of thinking no mystery at all:
"When nothing seems to help, I go and look at a stonecutter
hammering away at his rock, perhaps a hundred times without as
much as a crack showing in it. Yet at the hundred and first
blow it will split in two, and I know it was not that last
blow that did it, but all that had gone before."
Jacob A. Riis
Originally posted by Star428
👆That's the much more likely scenario, imo. Ush, like most other europeans, still doesn't get it. This is America. Guns are here to stay and nothing they say or do will change that. Americans will never "accept it" (gun ban) because there's still way too many of us who understand what a terrible mistake it'd be to get the second amendment ratified.
I agree that it is different in America when it comes to guns, that much is true. But you act like it is because people just realize that something awful would happen if the 2nd amendment was ratified.
Don't be fooled: It's not really about protecting America, they just don't want to lose their guns.
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Actually, the logic is not all that hard to understand.Written into the Constitution itself, if memory serves, is the idea that an armed citizenry makes the best safeguard against tyranny.
Any person taught that in school, and raised on tales of individual heroism and patriotism, as many in America are,will tend to view government regulation as a hidden, residual threat, merely waiting for the right conditions, historically economic, and the wrong people in power to bring about an inexorable rush to a totalitarian state. Happened in Germany, after all (mentioned because I actually see it listed as the headlining topic in this forum today, unbelievably) ...
Twice.
Also, in line with your "chipping" reference, many in America ALSO receive a steady diet of inspirational quotes like the following, which, if you combine with the knowledge of what I just said above, should make this kind of thinking no mystery at all:
"When nothing seems to help, I go and look at a stonecutter
and I know it was not that last
hammering away at his rock, perhaps a hundred times without as
much as a crack showing in it. Yet [B] at the hundred and first
blow it will split in two,
blow that did it, but all that had gone before."
Jacob A. Riis [/B]
Your contention that ANY form of gun restriction violates the Second Amendment doesn't stand up to any sort of scrutiny at all. Even the US has a whole host of restrictions of that sort as it stands already- like having a criminal record etc.
But you come in and make a totally baseless and brainless comment anyway, simply interpreting the second amendment to mean 'anything we want it to' and thereby emotively and dishonestly saying that gun control legislation is 'tyranny' and undemocratic. Your idea that any government legislation is tyranny waiting to happen is pure paranoia that does not belong in any serious discussion. It's a feeble joke of a position, rather like your ignorant and childlike attempt to draw parallels with Germany.
Originally posted by Star428
👆That's the much more likely scenario, imo. Ush, like most other europeans, still doesn't get it. This is America. Guns are here to stay and nothing they say or do will change that. Americans will never "accept it" (gun ban) because there's still way too many of us who understand what a terrible mistake it'd be to get the second amendment ratified.
I do so enjoy though reading europeans making claims that guns will be banned here eventually when they don't even realize how important our right to bear arms is to us. Congress cannot legally change or ban the second amendment. It can only be ratified by a 3/4 state majority vote which I'm pretty sure will never happen.
I certainly get that there is an insanely paranoid and illogical lobby that is fanatically devoted to protecting a useless law for spurious reasons, forming a massive part of the immorality that surrounds American gun culture. I don't think me having enough faith in Americans in general that that they will one day overcome this issue is position to be criticised, though. The Constitution has got it wrong before and been changed to fit- so it will happen again. In any case, though, you just weren't paying attention when you made that silly criticism of me there- this is about gun control laws, not outright banning, as PR pointed out.
In the meantime, though, you'll go on just watching the constant slaughter of Americans, far out of proportion to any other comparable western nation, and actively lobbying to do literally nothing about it every time- not one, tiny thing. The silly bit is where you can't seem to understand why other people find that so extraordinary.
----
One thing of some interest, gun ownership has dropped steadily for a long time. Even the number of Republicans with guns has proportionally gone down since the 70s.
Gun sales haven't changed much, but it's largely been people who have guns getting more guns, while the gunless percentage of the population grows.
Another thing of interest- and which frankly has little to do directly with individual gun ownership- is that for some reason, laws were passed in the 90s to prevent the ATF from being able to regularly check gun store inventories or track where guns used in crime is being used from, even though it's believed that the vast majority of guns used in crime come from under 5% of gun stores- i.e. there's a lot that could be done in cracking down on people actually acting as suppliers to criminals, but for some bizarre reason even that is restricted.