It always mystified me a bit when someone shares their opinion on the internet and the response it to tell them to calm down. I've been at this a decade. Nothing on KMC moves my emotional needle anymore. But you're welcome to address the points I made. You likely saw some sort of antagonism where none was present. I merely don't mince words when I believe something to be utterly false. But I'd welcome a discussion.
Originally posted by Digi
It always mystified me a bit when someone shares their opinion on the internet and the response it to tell them to calm down. I've been at this a decade. Nothing on KMC moves my emotional needle anymore. But you're welcome to address the points I made. You likely saw some sort of antagonism where none was present. I merely don't mince words when I believe something to be utterly false. But I'd welcome a discussion.
So, what you are saying is that your "emotional needle" is moved to "welcoming discussion"?
Originally posted by Astner
Could you motivate why you're not sure whether you'd agree with it?
Well, I think in essence I agree with Digi that meaning is made and not a given. So in that aspect I don't think Religion can be less meaningful, cause nothing has intrinsic meaning. However Religion can definitely make someone's life less impactful, for example by deferring to an afterlife rather than seizing the life one has, that could potentially be an interpretation of "meaning" in which Religion is a detriment.
Originally posted by Bardock42
Well, I think in essence I agree with Digi that meaning is made and not a given. So in that aspect I don't think Religion can be less meaningful, cause nothing has intrinsic meaning.
Originally posted by Bardock42
However Religion can definitely make someone's life less impactful, for example by deferring to an afterlife rather than seizing the life one has, that could potentially be an interpretation of "meaning" in which Religion is a detriment.
Originally posted by Digi
Again, the premise of this thread is false. Because it presumes that external things can imbue life with meaning. Nothing has any intrinsic meaning until someone ascribes meaning to it. Religion doesn't give people meaning. People give religion meaning, and give their lives meaning through religion. But it's no more or less meaningful than any other source of meaning. In simpler terms, the person is the source of meaning.So there isn't a yes or no answer to the OP that is true in a general sense beyond individual experiences. It isn't more or less meaningful without religion. It's exactly as meaningful as you make it.
And I say this twice now because it's one of the more bizarre falsehoods I see perpetuated about non-religion. That people can't fathom meaning outside of religion doesn't mean it doesn't exist. It only means their experience is limited. Maybe this isn't what Riv is saying, but it's very close to arguments I've heard several times, each as flawed as the next.
Are you married? Have children? If so, do they give your life meaning, or do you give family meaning by being part of it?
Originally posted by Astner
Then you agree with my sentiment.
He doesn't. He agrees with mine.
😛
But seriously, the way you worded your initial assertion lends itself to different interpretations than "nothing has intrinsic meaning." Let's take a quick look:
Originally posted by Astner
Well, at the very least I think all can agree on that it can't be less meaningful with religion.
At surface value, this seems to agree with the OP's premise that I refuted in my post(s), that religion has intrinsic meaning and "can't be less meaningful."
So even if he agrees with it in a technical sense, I wouldn't espouse that particular phrasing.
And for reference, I wouldn't agree with it. If meaning is personal and subjective, and someone defines that meaning more strongly in a secular worldview, religion can absolutely undermine it. Finding anecdotes of any of this is next to impossible because we're talking about primal internal motivations, so we have nothing to point to. But in theory your premise here is eminently refutable.
Originally posted by Tattoos N Scars
Are you married? Have children? If so, do they give your life meaning, or do you give family meaning by being part of it?
I think you may be confusing ideas here, but allow me to try to clarify.
OP's question concerns defining the meaningfulness - or lack thereof - of one's life. In that sense, nothing has intrinsic meaning until we ascribe it.
Your question seems to want to turn this on its head, and suggest that I'm saying that others have no meaning. Which it does not. Questions like "are they important?" or "do they have meaning?" are separate from "do they give your own life meaning?" The answers to the first two can be 'yes' without necessitating that the latter question also be a 'yes.'
Abstract it a level or two and it becomes easier to see. Take a family you've never met. Their existence means nothing to you personally, so it doesn't make your life meaningful. You don't define your intrinsic meaning through their existence. Yet, if you have any human decency - and of course you do - you'd also answer that their lives are meaningful. Two separate ideas, and I'm only talking about one of them.
Originally posted by Digi
It always mystified me a bit when someone shares their opinion on the internet and the response it to tell them to calm down. I've been at this a decade. Nothing on KMC moves my emotional needle anymore. But you're welcome to address the points I made. You likely saw some sort of antagonism where none was present. I merely don't mince words when I believe something to be utterly false. But I'd welcome a discussion.
It amuses me after 15 years when people on the internet say whatever they feel like, and get mystified when other people do the same.
So we're even. 👆 😆
Originally posted by Bardock42
You don't think the content of what is said matters?