Originally posted by Digi
That's a shame. You seemed to deny the possibility of "a lack of belief in God/gods" being a valid atheistic position, and I wanted to inform you of its reality. Half-finished conversations are no stranger to any corner of the internet, but my only aim was to share information and perspective.
That's a valid atheistic position. I'm not sure what the argument is because that defines the atheistic position.
It's weird because a lot of atheists I know in real life don't define themselves by their atheism. It's not like we wake up and say "what a great day to not believe in a higher power!". We just go about our lives not thinking about how our actions might impact what some deity thinks of us, but rather how they impact the world around us.
Religion isn't mentioned unless someone else brings it up. If it is mentioned in passing the people I know don't automatically go into a diatribe about how God isn't real. My entire family is religious, I don't bring up my lack of belief to them ever and sometimes they can't shut up about the damn church. Especially since if I mention atheism my mother will go on a rant about all the money she wasted on catholic school. As if I held a gun to her head and forced her to send me.
Religion isn't mentioned unless someone else brings it up.
I personally have the same attitude towards life you do. Of course my god isnt as uptight as most...
For me it depends on the people and how religion is brought up. For instance "oh I went to church last week it was awesome" doesn't tend to spark any atheist rants from people that I see. Now if someone said "oh religion does so much good for the world" then I guess it depends. This is just personal experience, but a comment like that might get someone to speak about their atheist views if someone they know says it, they might engage in a discussion.
But as for if a random person on the street said it and they overheard? They wouldn't say anything. Though I suppose just like religious people..all atheists are different. I likewise have known religious people that find a way to connect every single thing to Jesus.
Originally posted by Surtur
It's weird because a lot of atheists I know in real life don't define themselves by their atheism. It's not like we wake up and say "what a great day to not believe in a higher power!". We just go about our lives not thinking about how our actions might impact what some deity thinks of us, but rather how they impact the world around us.Religion isn't mentioned unless someone else brings it up. If it is mentioned in passing the people I know don't automatically go into a diatribe about how God isn't real. My entire family is religious, I don't bring up my lack of belief to them ever and sometimes they can't shut up about the damn church. Especially since if I mention atheism my mother will go on a rant about all the money she wasted on catholic school. As if I held a gun to her head and forced her to send me.
👆 All of this. Especially the part about just going on about my life. I literally can't imagine the person that is described in a lot of atheistic stereotypes.
Originally posted by riv6672
Yeah, but once it is, look OUT if there are any atheists within hearing distance.
Strangely, many seem to have a very "Holier than thou" attitude. 😆
Of course the same can be said for the vocal religious, too.
See, this is an unfounded generalization. And, since one person's anecdotal experiences are as good as another's, it's basically the complete opposite of my experience, both myself and any other atheist I've ever known.
Also, what kind of circles do you run with that you have this vast experience on the habits of atheists in religious debates? I can count on one hand the number of religious discussions I've been in during the past 2-3 years, and half of those were 1-on-1's with my gf. What are you basing this opinion on? How many people? Does it include the internet?
Personally I tend not to even use the word atheist/atheism in the (very, very few) religious discussions I get into IRL. It's too polarizing; even if I remain civil about it, the presence of an atheist tends to skew the discussion into incoherence. A product of living in the Midwest, I'm sure. I've met numerous people who had never met an atheist before me. It tends to quiet you when you're surrounded by an area that may as well be the Bible Belt. My current city is mercifully more diverse, at least. Atheists are statistically the most mistrusted demographic in the country for about a century running (with brief exceptions where Muslims took the #1 spot after 9/11 and the Tea Party during the last election). So I don't trust my social, personal, or professional chances to hoping people are tolerant of it, especially after having lost friends and social circles because of it. And, based on some of the other stories I've heard from atheists on KMC - like Delph, whose background made his atheism exponentially more difficult to maintain - I've actually had it very easy compared to some.
Also, as before Riv, this isn't me upset with you or your comments. It's just...how to put this? It's exhausting sometimes, because through some of what I mentioned there (and many things I didn't mention), I've learned that I sometimes have to hide my atheism. I'm a grown man without a lot of regard for what others think about me. But I still have to, because it has affected personal relationships. I've lost friends, gfs, etc. Not because I was a d*ck, but solely because I am an atheist. Those, tbh, I can live with. They don't bother me in the slightest, despite being unfortunate. But it could also very well affect my job or job prospects. I do alright, but don't yet have the kind of financial success that I can ignore it. The last interview I had was with a guy that wore his religion on his sleeve...in a major metropolis area for a secular for-profit organization, not in the middle of the South or some country town. And if I ever mention I'm an atheist, I often end up having to defend against similar accusations to yours their (which I realize were in general, not aimed at any one person), warranted or not. A vocal Christian can be equally as annoying, I agree. But they also reside in a country, and on a planet, that is overwhelmingly in fundamental agreement with them.
I'm not a marginalized minority, either. I'm a young white male living in the US, from a middle-class family. I'm quite lucky, and quite happy. But these things regarding atheism are absolutely still a major consideration.
So when I - or numerous atheists - see comments like yours there, there's an instinctive reaction. For me, it's to cringe, and then to try to debunk it. For others, it's anger and lashing out. I can't say I fault the latter response. Or rather, I can fault it, but I understand it, and it's where people get a lot of the negative stereotypes in the first place. That backlash is a learned response, not an inherent trait of their personality or atheism.
So hopefully that lends some perspective. Maybe your really have met someone, or numerous people, who are just insufferably superior about it. There isn't an excuse for that. But no atheist started that way; something caused them to respond to religious discussions in that manner. Realizing that fact is often the first step to cracking the rough exterior of such people.
Originally posted by Surtur
For me it depends on the people and how religion is brought up. For instance "oh I went to church last week it was awesome" doesn't tend to spark any atheist rants from people that I see. Now if someone said "oh religion does so much good for the world" then I guess it depends. This is just personal experience, but a comment like that might get someone to speak about their atheist views if someone they know says it, they might engage in a discussion.
I would find a way to enter the discussion without needing to declare my atheism, tbh. Most discussions can avoid it, and you can still be honest about your opinions. So, like, with your example, "Does religion do more good/bad?" is an interesting discussion, but I don't need to rant against religion to make a case or consider both sides.
Originally posted by Surtur
Though I suppose just like religious people..all atheists are different.
Winner.
👆
Yet you can still be bothered to write generalized insults at atheists without hearing a response. But you'll make a thread on a discussion forum, then ignore discussion and act like a jerk when engaged. Like I said, a profound shame.
Thanks for that, though. It's important to know who isn't worth my time on the forums.
Well, considering our opinion of one another is likely equally low, yet, you're the one huffing slash puffing in my thread (which has surely run its course), while i cant recall the last time i've ever done that in one of yours (never), your congratulations arent really needed; the couple minutes of entertainment you provide me are more than enough.
@Surtur and Q99
Last 2 posts in the thread seem to be the summation. I have to admit, i missed all this, since i dont post in like 99% of the political threads.
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=618804&pagenumber=4