Supernatural Season 11

Yeah but remember Michael never had to experience that. He'd been pretty much the most powerful being in creation(save for God and a few others) for his entire life and then suddenly he finds himself trapped in a cage.

Also consider this: it's not just Michael, but Adam as well. A normal human kid who wasn't meant to ever be imprisoned forever, etc. It's possible the emotions of the host body took a toll on poor Mikey.

Or consider this: who told us Michael was crazy? Lucifer. Is the guy trustworthy? Of course he'd try to paint Michael as unusable. Remember we never actually see Michael anywhere. Another reason for Lucifer to want Michael kept away: Michael already has a host body. Lucifer, even though he appears as Nick, didn't actually go into the pit with Nick's body, he had Sam's and then lost it. So they wouldn't really even need to worry about a host body since Michael was already in Adam.

If you want to talk about things that bother me then it is the assumption that Lucifer wants to destroy the world and cause the Apocalypse. Remember the chat Lucifer and Michael have at the end of the 5th season? Lucifer didn't want to fight, he didn't want to nuke the entire world. It was MICHAEL who was more insistent upon that. So actually yeah..I could believe Lucifer wouldn't try to start the Apocalypse. Of course it doesn't mean he wouldn't turn the world into his own personal playground, but it was pretty much a plot point that Lucifer didn't want to go along with the whole plan of the apocalypse. Since think about it..if Lucifer really truly wanted to destroy everything he could of just used Death to do that.

Also I am beginning to think Castiel is now the angelic version of the Winchesters. Where Sam and Dean tend to have all their friends die sooner or later..with Castiel it seems now guaranteed that any angel he meets is going to be horribly killed.

I am not sure Adam would cause much of a hindrance. Michael is the kind of dick to probably vacate any remaining shred of Adam from the premises before taking over his body, or at least lock him so far deep down inside that Adam's screams can barely be heard. As you also pointed out with the final showdown, Michael is arguably the bigger jerk of the Two Big angelic brothers actually.

I rather think it is Lucifer exaggerating, as you said. I still find it hard to believe that a being that is probably almost as old as the universe itself would break in such a relatively short amount of time, when a normal human like Dean withstood active torture for 30 years before breaking, and John went even longer without actually breaking IIRC. Most likely Lucifer doesn't want Michael to be pulled into things. He has a host now, but it isn't his true host, so I'm afraid meatsuit-Jimmy is going to start falling apart at some point. Adam, while not Dean, is still from the right family line at least, and a suitable host for Michael. Which is also probably partly why he made sure no one else could open or close the cage again before killing Rowena (the other part obviously being so that no one could shut him in again). Because if Michael did get out you would be damn sure he WOULD try to kick off the Apocalypse again, especially if he is in fact slightly off the rails now.

But I assume Rowena is unaware of the fact that there is another way to open and close the cage again, considering the brothers have done exactly that in the past. Though not sure how they would manage to obtain Death's ring this time.

Wasn't Michael also taking part in the Sam punching-bag while Sam was still in the cage. Maybe getting Adam caught in the mix while having to be stuck in a cage for the first time may have been more damaging to his psyche.

Pretty sure Lucifer doesn't actually want to destroy the Earth as he said that it was the last great creation of God in the alternate timeline where he wins. Not sure how Jimmy is going to hold up having both Cas and Lucifer bunking inside. Then again it did hold the purgatory souls for a bit so there's that.

Also with Rowena dead how's the Book going to make itself useful.

This show needed to end once Lucifer died, that was the logical closure point.

Except at no point has he ever been dead. But Supernatural was originally supposed to end at season 5, with Lucifer and Michael getting locked up. But due to popularity and fan demand it kept going. And it will probably still be going for another few seasons yet. After seasons 6-10 were very hit-and-miss, season 11 has been pretty good again.

Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
Wasn't Michael also taking part in the Sam punching-bag while Sam was still in the cage. Maybe getting Adam caught in the mix while having to be stuck in a cage for the first time may have been more damaging to his psyche.

We don't know if Michael took part on torturing Sam. He definitely seems like the type that would, but it seems like Lucifer and Michael are kept in separate cages.

Pretty sure Lucifer doesn't actually want to destroy the Earth as he said that it was the last great creation of God in the alternate timeline where he wins.

Yes he doesn't want to destroy the earth itself. Humanity on the other hand..he kinda does. Or at the very least he wants to kill most of them and infect those who remain with the croatoan virus.

Not sure how Jimmy is going to hold up having both Cas and Lucifer bunking inside. Then again it did hold the purgatory souls for a bit so there's that.

Remember Jimmy is gone. He is no longer inside Castiel, it's just Cas now. Or at least Cas and Lucifer now.

Also remember it wasn't the souls of people that were causing Castiel problems, it was the fact he unknowingly also took in the souls of the Leviathans.

The thing that bugs me this time about Cas is that we know Lucifer didn't fight the Darkness by himself. He had the help of God and the other arch angels. Yet this fact isn't really pointed out until the last minute. It's like Castiel feels Lucifer is so utterly powerful he can compensate for not having arch angels or friggin God himself on their side. Except we know that Lucifer isn't the most powerful angel..since if he was Michael wouldn't of been able to beat him down back in the day.

It is also implied that Lucifer turned evil because of the mark or whatever. Yet everyone seems to pretend like he was just born a prick.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller But I assume Rowena is unaware of the fact that there is another way to open and close the cage again, considering the brothers have done exactly that in the past. Though not sure how they would manage to obtain Death's ring this time. [/B]

Well yeah, but Lucifer already knows about the rings, so he was taking care of the one wild card by killing her. The only other way we've seen someone get in is death himself.

I am curious about if the Leprechaun Sam encountered in season 6 was telling the truth about being able to get into the cage and free Sam's soul. I've been waiting for a while now for someone/something from the fairy realm to show up as a recurring villain. Especially when the faeries obviously have a devil figure of their own that is definitely not Lucifer.

The point about the Jimmy thing is that Jimmy's body is not meant to host someone like Lucifer. We saw what happens when an Archangel takes a body it's not meant to. The vessel starts to deteriorate and weaken. And maybe Lucifer believes that he can defeat the Darkness solo because she probably isn't quite at full power yet. But yeah, would think that Michael > Lucifer, considering Michael kicked Lucifer's ass out of Heaven, despite Lucifer presumably still having the Mark on top of his own angelic powers.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Except at no point has he ever been dead. But Supernatural [B]was originally supposed to end at season 5, with Lucifer and Michael getting locked up. But due to popularity and fan demand it kept going. And it will probably still be going for another few seasons yet. After seasons 6-10 were very hit-and-miss, season 11 has been pretty good again. [/B]

Season 5, I mean.

If it had ended there, that might have been one of the best endings to any show ever.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
They are never ever going to top that season again.

Season 5, I mean.

If it had ended there, that might have been one of the best endings to any show ever.

Have to agree with you there actually. The first 4 seasons specifically built up to season 5 to be the climax. And Chuck still did his farewell message about the show and everything at the end of the last episode.

And that was the issue with seasons 6-10 IMO. They kept the show going after the "peak", so to speak, but then had to try and think up villains and plots that would still seem relevant after literally stopping Lucifer and the Apocalypse. And sadly, the majority of those villains (like the Leviathans and Metatron, for example) ended up being really stupid and lame. But they've brought it back full circle to the Archangels etc. with season 11, so I am optimistic.

I still don't think they'll ever top season 5, but I do think they're doing good currently.

I flat out lol'd when that other angel genuinely seemed to think that he had a chance against Lucifer, in the latest episode.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
The point about the Jimmy thing is that Jimmy's body is not meant to host someone like Lucifer. We saw what happens when an Archangel takes a body it's not meant to. The vessel starts to deteriorate and weaken. And maybe Lucifer believes that he can defeat the Darkness solo because she probably isn't quite at full power yet. But yeah, would think that Michael > Lucifer, considering Michael kicked Lucifer's ass out of Heaven, despite Lucifer presumably still having the Mark on top of his own angelic powers.

Yeah but remember though, Lucifer was in Nick for pretty much the entire 5th season and even when he left his body it's not like the body was in horrible shape. It certainly wasn't in good shape, but it didn't seem to be near death.

On the other hand Castiel now isn't really a normal angel though. He's not an angel possessing a human anymore. He's been utterly destroyed and reformed on at least two occasions. Actually potentially three times, he was destroyed by Raphael, he was destroyed by Lucifer, and then it seems like his body was destroyed once the leviathans escaped. Castiel tends to get exploded a lot. Rather his soul is now the main occupant of his body. So it is possible the body might not break down. Or since we know Castiel's body doesn't begin to break down it could be that this vessel will hold up because there is still technically a soul inside of it that belongs there.

Though I do like how Cas asks "Can you really beat the darkness?". Of course Lucifer is going to say yes..he's friggin Lucifer.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
I flat out lol'd when that other angel genuinely seemed to think that he had a chance against Lucifer, in the latest episode.

I like how Lucifer was so unconcerned about the threat the guy posed that he actually turns his back on him.

When the angel was following Casifer I was thinking to myself 'Why are you following Lucifer. Don't tell me they are going to somehow forget they can see the other beings true self in the bodies.' But nope the angel was just an idiot and tried to kill Lucifer.

So can Lucifer still fly as I'm not sure if he and Michael were effected by the "fall".

Also the Winchesters met a hunter that didn't get horribly murdered in the same episode so there's that.

You would think he could.... But it hasn't shown if he's driving Cas' car or flying as of yet... But I can't picture Lucy driving a car.

Too be fair, the cop chicks are technically hunters now and have survived.

He could drive a car for comedic purposes. Though now that Lucy's back, when's the show going to make good on Gabriel making another appearance.

Those cop chicks are still the exception and not the rule. They weren't introduced as hunters either.

Originally posted by Surtur
Yeah but remember though, Lucifer was in Nick for pretty much the entire 5th season and even when he left his body it's not like the body was in horrible shape. It certainly wasn't in good shape, but it didn't seem to be near death.

On the other hand Castiel now isn't really a normal angel though. He's not an angel possessing a human anymore. He's been utterly destroyed and reformed on at least two occasions. Actually potentially three times, he was destroyed by Raphael, he was destroyed by Lucifer, and then it seems like his body was destroyed once the leviathans escaped. Castiel tends to get exploded a lot. Rather his soul is now the main occupant of his body. So it is possible the body might not break down. Or since we know Castiel's body doesn't begin to break down it could be that this vessel will hold up because there is still technically a soul inside of it that belongs there.

Though I do like how Cas asks "Can you really beat the darkness?". Of course Lucifer is going to say yes..he's friggin Lucifer.

I suppose that is possible. I was wondering about that especially considering the Darkness also commented on how she was trying to understand why God took such a personal interest in Castiel. Or they might just gloss over the deterioration thing completely without explanation. Wouldn't be the first time.

Originally posted by Surtur
I like how Lucifer was so unconcerned about the threat the guy posed that he actually turns his back on him.

Initially I thought he was just going to try to talk to him and figure out why he is there, but when he pulled the blade all I could think was "Oh you dumb bastard."

I don't think either Michael or Lucifer should have been affected by the fall really. The angels seemed to all have gotten injured (some even dying) during the fall itself. But Lucifer and Michael never fell, being locked in Hell at the time.

Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
He could drive a car for comedic purposes. Though now that Lucy's back, when's the show going to make good on Gabriel making another appearance.

Those cop chicks are still the exception and not the rule. They weren't introduced as hunters either.

This is true. But they've survived longer than I thought they would.

Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
So can Lucifer still fly as I'm not sure if he and Michael were effected by the "fall".

Was it said angels can't fly? I thought they were locked out of heaven, but what does that have to do with flying?

Also the Winchesters met a hunter that didn't get horribly murdered in the same episode so there's that.

It's happened before. It just means she should pray that she never runs into Sam and Dean again. Being around Sam and Dean the first time is like playing russian roulette with a pistol with 6 chambers and 1 bullet. Every time after that a character encounters them the number goes up: 6 chambers with 2 bullets. 6 chambers with 3. Until sooner or later their death is inevitable.

I think Bobby had some kind of mystical item that protected him for so long.

It's also kind of funny, considering your remark about Castiel being the angel version of the Winchesters, that another one of the heavenly host got splattered because he let Lucifer take the driving seat. That's 2 in 2 episodes for Cas now. 😆