Paris multiple attacks

The statistics of terrorism in Europe over time

Separatism-based terrorism used to be quite common (probably why Europe has better response to terrorism than the US, they've had longer to, ugh, get used to it), but has been steadily in decline. Unfortunately, religious-base terrorism has been on the rise.

And to more to the Beirut attacks again, since they're also by Daesh, Adel Termos, a Beirut resident out with his daughter, tackled one of the suicide bombers who was heading for a crowd. He and his daughter died *Edit*Sources seem uncertain as to whether she made it*/edit*, but he saved many lives in doing so. That's a hero.

Found this:

Well yeah, the hip new thing is to play the victim. Either for attention or to justify certain actions.

Originally posted by Surtur
Well yeah, the hip new thing is to play the victim. Either for attention or to justify certain actions.

Well ISIS, the guy was talking about ISIS in your post.

That was Q99's post, but okay, I see.

In other news, regarding the fracas over the disproportionate coverage of the violence in Paris and the bombings in Beirut just a day before, I think people should always pay attention when dozens of people die in one incident no matter where it happens. I've seen people get defensive when the accusation of Western bias comes up, and they'll argue that more people died in France and that unlike in Lebanon which is adjacent to a warzone, a major terrorist attack in France is more dramatic and newsworthy. I think those arguments are valid, to a point. But we also have to consider the danger of ever treating tragedy in any country as "business as usual." It ends up devaluing human life in those places and encouraging people to tune out tragedies if they happen in remote parts of the globe. We also have to consider that proportionally, 45 people dead in a country of 6 million is a pretty serious death toll, similar in scale to the Anders Breivik shooting in Norway in terms of deaths per capita, which unlike the Beirut bombings was a huge international news story.

Based on the media and public reaction to the two tragedies, I don't think anyone can seriously argue that in the West at least, European/Western lives aren't valued above other lives. That's a tragedy of another sort.

I think it has more to do with ethnocultural empathy. People in the West can relate more easily with the French than with the Lebanese. You'd be more upset by the death of your real-life friend's mother than by the death of mine, it's really only natural. I'm not saying that justifies it, but really, what more can be expected from people?

Furthermore, I think a lot of people in the West weren't even aware of the attacks in Lebanon, I guess that has more to do with media portrayal or to what extent most people follow world news.

And I really don't believe this is a problem that only exists in the Western world. Do you honestly think people in the Islamic world give equal importance to what happened in Paris, compared to what happened in Beirut? I highly doubt it. Again, I don't even blame them.

Originally posted by Slay
I think it has more to do with ethnocultural empathy. People in the West can relate more easily with the French than with the Lebanese. You'd be more upset by the death of your real-life friend's mother than by the death of mine, it's really only natural. I'm not saying that justifies it, but really, what more can be expected from people?

Furthermore, I think a lot of people in the West weren't even aware of the attacks in Lebanon, I guess that has more to do with media portrayal or to what extent most people follow world news.

And I really don't believe this is a problem that only exists in the Western world. Do you honestly think people in the Islamic world give equal importance to what happened in Paris, compared to what happened in Beirut? I highly doubt it. Again, I don't even blame them.

Well, I don't know about that. I don't exactly have the pulse for the Middle Eastern media or public, but I'm willing to bet even in Middle Eastern channels there's more coverage of the Paris violence than there is of the Beirut bombings simply because no matter where you are, unless you're in Lebanon itself, the Paris tragedy is simply more unexpected and dramatic and thus "newsworthy"

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I think the media is a product of culture, so media bias is symptomatic of cultural bias.

Well, I don't know about that. I don't exactly have the pulse for the Middle Eastern media or public, but I'm willing to bet even in Middle Eastern channels there's more coverage of the Paris violence than there is of the Beirut bombings simply because no matter where you are, unless you're in Lebanon itself, the Paris tragedy is simply more unexpected and dramatic and thus "newsworthy"

That could very well be true, but I was mostly talking about your comment regarding Westerners valuing Western lives over Middle-Eastern lives. I'm sure there was plenty media-exposure regarding the Paris attacks in the Middle-East but if you ask random Jordanians or Iranians, they'll most likely value Lebanese lives over Western lives. Coming back to ethnocultural empathy. The media may play a part in this but definitely does not dictate it. Especially in an area like the Middle-East, where so much of life revolves around religion and tradition.

* By these I mean the British, Dutch and German outlets I follow, can't really speak for all of Europe.

Not saying that you don't make a good point OV, but I assume ISIS itself considers the France attack a bigger win than the Beirut one.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Who exactly is "playing the victim?" ISIS, or Muslims in general, in your view?

If it's in reference to my post, wouldn't it be the European right wingers?

The guy's noting how they're using the event to, as Surtur said, "Either for attention or to justify certain actions."

The refugees, of course, are actual victims, as are the Parisians, and neither's pushing to justify too much in the way of actions.

More info!

There was an attempt by a suicide bomber to get inside a crowded stadium.

He was stopped by a security guard- named Zouheir. When attempted to back away from security, he detonated the vest.

There were two other bombings nearby, but only one civilian death caused by all three.

President Hollande was in the stadium at the time and was evacuated. The game continued because they didn't want a panicked rush out of the stadium.

Zouheir afaik is an Arabic name.

Originally posted by Q99
Found this:

I agree with that, with the exception of "may", the refugees will be paying for this as they'll be an easy outlet for the anger these attacks have and will continue to cause.

Agreeing with Robtard. Unfortunately, the refugees will definitely be an easy outlet for frustrated and grieving Europeans.

I heard the story about Zouheir. Much worse could have happened.

Yeah it's amazing how quickly people can over react because of fear.

There is already online war between those who changed their profile pictures to French tricolor and those who didn't. Everyone forgot about the attack already. People are stupid.

I wouldn't say people have forgotten. They're just focusing on aspects that relate to them. Not always a good thing, but there you go.

I'd like to share a bit of writing, from Daesh itself, as to their motives:

They want to eliminate the 'gray zone,' i.e. they want everyone in one of two camps, with them or against them. They view attacks and notably the response to them, as a way of pushing people off the proverbial fence and into their camp, as a way of eliminating moderate Islam and similar 'gray' groups.

When people go to anti-Muslim rhetoric as a whole, I can't help but notice that that's exactly what Daesh wants. And if someone is doing exactly what the actual enemy wants, and looking at the reasoning it is entirely clear and logical why they want it- it gives them a heck of a lot more recruits if we act that way- I think that's a stupid approach.

Anyone see the latest "Charlie Hebdo" cover? It shows a guy drinking champagne and there are bullet holes in his body so the champagne is coming out of the holes. Then the writing on it basically says "screw you we have champagne".