Stark/Banner vs. Rogers/Thor

In the scene in AoU in Stark tower, right after the team first encounters and defeats Ultron, let's pretend that the argument between the Avengers developed into a full blown fight. Tony and Banner teaming up due to both of them developing Ultron, Cap and Thor teaming up as they're the ones who were most strongly opposed to Ultron's creation. Let's further pretend that they're so pissed off that they're willing to kill the other team as they feel that the other team is a threat to world peace and security.

Scenario 1: The fight erupts right in the middle of their heated debate, meaning Tony is not in armor, Steve doesn't have his shield though it is within the room, Banner is still in human form, Mjolnir is on the table. The rest of the avengers quickly vacate the building as the fight erupts. Who wins?

Scenario 2: All the combatants are allowed 5 mins. to arm themselves while the other Avengers vacate the premises. Fight is still in Stark tower. Morals still off.

Scenario 3: The other Avengers manage to break up the fight. The combatants agree to meet again in 1 week in an honorable fight to the death. Tony and Banner stay in Stark tower and have all of Stark's resources to prepare for the fight. Thor flies Cap to Asgard and has all of Asgard's resources to prepare for the fight. Despite having prep time, the combatants are only allowed to bring their standard weaponry to the fight - no extra equipment or enhancements allowed. Stark and Banner obviously have way more IQ but Steve and Thor have more tactical and battle knowledge/experience. Who wins?

Additional details: In scenarios 2 and 3, Cap is allowed to carry a knife and side arm.

Team 1

1. Thor/Cap win. Even without the shield Cap is well above unarmored Stark and Thor is >>>>>>>>>>>Hulk

2. Thor wins. Tony would kill Cap with no morals but again Thor is too much for Hulk. Ironman ain't beating Thor

3. Hulk and Ironman can win this one imo. Thor is mostly a brute. No prep will help him fight any differently. Once Hulk punches him in the mouth he will get pissed and just fight. Stark can easily kill Cap and then keep distance and provide support for Hulk. The prep time helps Stark come up with ways to distract Thor so Hulk can smash. With enough distraction Stark/Hulk could win but it really falls on Thor getting overwhelmed by the teamwork. Don't see that much coordinance happening in 5 minutes but with a week they have a shot

Originally posted by juggerman
1. Thor/Cap win. Even without the shield Cap is well above unarmored Stark and Thor is >>>>>>>>>>>Hulk

2. Thor wins. Tony would kill Cap with no morals but again Thor is too much for Hulk. Ironman ain't beating Thor

3. Hulk and Ironman can win this one imo. Thor is mostly a brute. No prep will help him fight any differently. Once Hulk punches him in the mouth he will get pissed and just fight. Stark can easily kill Cap and then keep distance and provide support for Hulk. The prep time helps Stark come up with ways to distract Thor so Hulk can smash. With enough distraction Stark/Hulk could win but it really falls on Thor getting overwhelmed by the teamwork. Don't see that much coordinance happening in 5 minutes but with a week they have a shot

Not saying I disagree, but don't you think Cap and Thor are capable of making a battle plan of their own in 1 week? I know Thor isn't exactly a savvy fighter but he's less of a brute than Hulk is.

Originally posted by juggerman
3. Hulk and Ironman can win this one imo. Thor is mostly a brute. No prep will help him fight any differently. Once Hulk punches him in the mouth he will get pissed and just fight. Stark can easily kill Cap and then keep distance and provide support for Hulk. The prep time helps Stark come up with ways to distract Thor so Hulk can smash. With enough distraction Stark/Hulk could win but it really falls on Thor getting overwhelmed by the teamwork. Don't see that much coordinance happening in 5 minutes but with a week they have a shot

Thor isn't simply a brute. He may not be doing fancy spins/flips/etc but he's not an unskilled fighter and doesn't simply lose his cool from a punch to the mouth.

Isn't Prep in Asgard way better than anything resources at Tony and Bruce's disposal.

I mean Thor could literally have Heimdall watching Tony and Bruce make their plans while Cap and Thor make a specific plan to counter theirs.

Also I'm not sure what 1 week of planning is really going to accomplish if the teams aren't allowed to actually bring anything from their prep time into combat.

At that point it is literally just trying to fine tune your team fighting ability while talking strengths and weaknesses which Cap and Thor should solidly be better at as they are both more tactical and more used to fighting in groups.

Originally posted by Newjak

Also I'm not sure what 1 week of planning is really going to accomplish if the teams aren't allowed to actually bring anything from their prep time into combat.

At that point it is literally just trying to fine tune your team fighting ability while talking strengths and weaknesses

Exactly. The prep time is to give them time to strategize, not come up with advanced weaponry. I admit I forgot about Heimdall so let's just take him out of the equation. It's supposed to be an honorable battle after all.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Not saying I disagree, but don't you think Cap and Thor are capable of making a battle plan of their own in 1 week? I know Thor isn't exactly a savvy fighter but he's less of a brute than Hulk is.

Thor is no Stark tho. And I honestly feel once Thor gets hit by either Tony or Hulk he will be pissed and just look to f*ck shit up. I see Stark keeping his cool much better. Plus Stark is probably the smartest guy there. Any plan he comes up with will shazz on Thor and Cap imo

Originally posted by 80sBaby
Thor isn't simply a brute. He may not be doing fancy spins/flips/etc but he's not an unskilled fighter and doesn't simply lose his cool from a punch to the mouth.

He seems to get pissed pretty easily and looks to smash. Not as much as Hulk but Thor does throw temper tantrums

Originally posted by Newjak
I mean Thor could literally have Heimdall watching Tony and Bruce make their plans while Cap and Thor make a specific plan to counter theirs.

Pretty sure prep doesn't include outside help...

So you feel that Thor will totally lose his sh!t at the start of the fight, despite there being zero examples of him doing so in any of the movies?

Perhaps I didn't express myself as clearly as I should have. Stark can annoy/fluster/distract Thor with his speed and various weaponry. I didn't mean only one hit would do it, though it might. But Stark has been known to get under Thor's skin and quite easily at that. With Thor getting more and more frustrated with Tony and being attacked by Hulk this could net a win for them.

In no means am I saying it's a given. In fact in my initial post I said they CAN win and that they have a SHOT. Not once did I say that they would certainly win.

We've seen Thor enter into a slight blood lust while in battle (example is his first fight with the Frost giants). We've also seen him get pissed while fighting (example when he beat the crap out of Loki) but we've never seen him fight stupidly and without reason.

Even at his most arrogant during that first fight with the frost giants, he still had enough prescence of mind to know that his friends were in danger and he flew in to save them.

Thor is a veteran warrior of a thousand years. He's not going to fight stupidly after getting hit a few times. His temper may go up, we've seen it happen, but every time that happens he still fights properly.

Stark can definitely annoy Thor, but Stark isn't fast enough to escape hits from Thor. So every time Stark annoys Thor there's a good chance he's going to get hit. I think it would be foolish for Stark to try the annoy tactic, he should go in there full blast if he's to have a chance at Thor.

Originally posted by juggerman
Perhaps I didn't express myself as clearly as I should have. Stark can annoy/fluster/distract Thor with his speed and various weaponry. I didn't mean only one hit would do it, though it might. But Stark has been known to get under Thor's skin and quite easily at that. With Thor getting more and more frustrated with Tony and being attacked by Hulk this could net a win for them.

In no means am I saying it's a given. In fact in my initial post I said they CAN win and that they have a SHOT. Not once did I say that they would certainly win.

Where exactly in the movies has Iron-man annoyed Thor to the point where it effects his fighting ability?

Originally posted by FrothByte
We've seen Thor enter into a slight blood lust while in battle (example is his first fight with the Frost giants). We've also seen him get pissed while fighting (example when he beat the crap out of Loki) but we've never seen him fight stupidly and without reason.

Even at his most arrogant during that first fight with the frost giants, he still had enough prescence of mind to know that his friends were in danger and he flew in to save them.

Thor is a veteran warrior of a thousand years. He's not going to fight stupidly after getting hit a few times. His temper may go up, we've seen it happen, but every time that happens he still fights properly.

Stark can definitely annoy Thor, but Stark isn't fast enough to escape hits from Thor. So every time Stark annoys Thor there's a good chance he's going to get hit. I think it would be foolish for Stark to try the annoy tactic, he should go in there full blast if he's to have a chance at Thor.

Thor vs Ironman in the first Avengers shows him getting pretty pissed very easily. I'm not saying he will become blinded by rage but it's enough to throw him off his game. Stark's attacks can toss Thor a bit and prevent him from charging up an Hulk killing attack.

Again I don't think the odds are in Stark and Hulk's favor. I just think they have a shot in 3 and that's how they could possibly win. I can see no one really agrees with me and that's ok.

Does anyone else have an opinion on the 3 matches?

Originally posted by Silent Master
Where exactly in the movies has Iron-man annoyed Thor to the point where it effects his fighting ability?

He has annoyed and held his own against Thor in Avengers. With Hulk on his side he might be able to win

Originally posted by juggerman
Thor vs Ironman in the first Avengers shows him getting pretty pissed very easily. I'm not saying he will become blinded by rage but it's enough to throw him off his game. Stark's attacks can toss Thor a bit and prevent him from charging up an Hulk killing attack.

Again I don't think the odds are in Stark and Hulk's favor. I just think they have a shot in 3 and that's how they could possibly win. I can see no one really agrees with me and that's ok.

Does anyone else have an opinion on the 3 matches?

He has annoyed and held his own against Thor in Avengers. With Hulk on his side he might be able to win

The Thor/Ironman fight isn't a good example since, when Thor did get pissed, he casually backhanded Tony like it was nothing. Pissing Thor off would actually be a bad idea.

Originally posted by juggerman
Thor vs Ironman in the first Avengers shows him getting pretty pissed very easily. I'm not saying he will become blinded by rage but it's enough to throw him off his game. Stark's attacks can toss Thor a bit and prevent him from charging up an Hulk killing attack.

Again I don't think the odds are in Stark and Hulk's favor. I just think they have a shot in 3 and that's how they could possibly win. I can see no one really agrees with me and that's ok.

Does anyone else have an opinion on the 3 matches?

He has annoyed and held his own against Thor in Avengers. With Hulk on his side he might be able to win

I'm not saying Thor can't get pissed. He does have a temper. I'm just saying getting him pissed won't make him fight stupidly or make stray from his game plan, since we have yet to see this happen.

As for my opinion in the matches, I think Thor/Cap take round 1 and 3 and Stark/Bruce take round 2.

Originally posted by 80sBaby
\

The Thor/Ironman fight isn't a good example since, when Thor did get pissed, he casually backhanded Tony like it was nothing. Pissing Thor off would actually be a bad idea.

That's why Tony would be keeping his distance here. Lasers and rockets and pulses and whatnot. No need to get too close.

Originally posted by FrothByte
I'm not saying Thor can't get pissed. He does have a temper. I'm just saying getting him pissed won't make him fight stupidly or make stray from his game plan, since we have yet to see this happen.

As for my opinion in the matches, I think Thor/Cap take round 1 and 3 and Stark/Bruce take round 2.

It can make him make a mistake. It can also cause him to be open for Hulk's attacks.

Why your choices?

Originally posted by juggerman

It can make him make a mistake. It can also cause him to be open for Hulk's attacks.

Why your choices?

Well sure yeah, same way it can make any fighter make mistakes. Can make Tony or Steve make mistakes. Thor may have a temper but Tony is less experienced. I think the point I'm trying to make is that the "annoying" tactic isn't going to work on anyone other than Hulk.

As for my choices:

1 - Tony can call his armor to him and Bruce can change at will. But I think Cap and Thor are fast enough to kill Tony before he can get all his armor on, and they might be able to KO Bruce before he has fully turned. Even if they can't, once Tony is out of the way they should be able to handle the Hulk.

2 - If Tony and Hulk are fully prepped then it's a lot hard for Cap/Thor. The smaller confines of the Stark tower will make it hard for Cap to dodge around either IM or Hulk and it will play to Hulk's strengths. I feel like this will be the toughest fight for the teams, but there's a bit more advantage for IM/Hulk. IM/Hulk are physically stronger and tougher than the combination of Cap and Thor, and in close confines this will come into play.

3 - Cap and Thor will work better as a team. Let's face it, once Banner turns into Hulk then he's out of the game plan. Tony will be left to do whatever strategy he has on his own. Cap can actually annoy Hulk. We've seen Blonsky duck and dodge all over Hulk, Cap should be able to do the same. keep Hulk occupied till Thor takes out IM. Once that's done, Thor can unleash fully on the Hulk.