Stark/Banner vs. Rogers/Thor

Originally posted by FrothByte
Well sure yeah, same way it can make any fighter make mistakes. Can make Tony or Steve make mistakes. Thor may have a temper but Tony is less experienced. I think the point I'm trying to make is that the "annoying" tactic isn't going to work on anyone other than Hulk.

As for my choices:

1 - Tony can call his armor to him and Bruce can change at will. But I think Cap and Thor are fast enough to kill Tony before he can get all his armor on, and they might be able to KO Bruce before he has fully turned. Even if they can't, once Tony is out of the way they should be able to handle the Hulk.

2 - If Tony and Hulk are fully prepped then it's a lot hard for Cap/Thor. The smaller confines of the Stark tower will make it hard for Cap to dodge around either IM or Hulk and it will play to Hulk's strengths. I feel like this will be the toughest fight for the teams, but there's a bit more advantage for IM/Hulk. IM/Hulk are physically stronger and tougher than the combination of Cap and Thor, and in close confines this will come into play.

3 - Cap and Thor will work better as a team. Let's face it, once Banner turns into Hulk then he's out of the game plan. Tony will be left to do whatever strategy he has on his own. Cap can actually annoy Hulk. We've seen Blonsky duck and dodge all over Hulk, Cap should be able to do the same. keep Hulk occupied till Thor takes out IM. Once that's done, Thor can unleash fully on the Hulk.

In a 2 on 1 scenario I think it is more likely the 1 makes the mistake over the 2. They would need to take full advantage over any and every opening they get to win

1. I agree.

2. Good point.

3. Hulk was able to be a team player in both Avengers movies. I think him not being able to work with Stark is not correct.

Originally posted by juggerman
In a 2 on 1 scenario I think it is more likely the 1 makes the mistake over the 2. They would need to take full advantage over any and every opening they get to win

1. I agree.

2. Good point.

3. Hulk was able to be a team player in both Avengers movies. I think him not being able to work with Stark is not correct.

In a 2 on 1 scenario... who's your 2 and who's your 1?

In both the Avengers movies they mostly just leave Hulk alone to smash enemies. I don't recall any form of smart strategy that he was part of. They asked him to take out a bunker but that's about it.

Originally posted by juggerman
He has annoyed and held his own against Thor in Avengers. With Hulk on his side he might be able to win

When Thor got annoyed in that fight he started crushing Iron-man's armor with his bare hands and later casually back-handed Tony like IM wasn't worth his time. BTW. that was an Iron-man amped to 475% and he in no way held his on, the best you can say is that Tony survived.

To be fair, it wasn't like Tony used any of his more powerful weapons either. He stuck to repulsors and melee. It's pretty safe to assume that neither of them was going "all out".

Thor's high end attacks are a good deal above Iron-man's, so both going all out would just mean that Tony dies faster. as it stands, an amped but holding back Tony was losing and getting damaged from a holding back Thor who ended the fight without any sign of injury.

Yeah I think Thor showed in Avengers he could take IM out pretty easily if he wanted. I mean crushing Tony's armor with his bare hands without what looked like zero effort was all I needed to see to show what Thor could do to IM's suit of armor if he chose to let lose.

Also in terms of getting Thor off of his game. The only person in any movie Thor has appeared in that has done that was Loki. And only because he could play the Brother Save Me card because Thor was trying to save his brother.

Even when he gets angry and annoyed he can still fight like a trained warrior. As shown against IM in Avengers. As seen when he is in a blood rage against the Frost Giants. Heck the the Frost Giant's fight was probably the most competent we have seen Thor fight while using his powers with the only other exception being the Destroyer fight.

I am not denying 100% Thor >>> 100% Iron Man. But if Tony plays it smart, some of his more advanced and lethal weaponry could at least tie Thor up for a while. Remember, Tony does have things like auto-targeting missiles and other gadgets, so he could at least play cat and mouse for a bit while bombarding Thor with stuff.

If you're going to have IM going all out and fighting OOC, then you have to give Thor the same benefit and in that case, IM dies rather quickly.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
I am not denying 100% Thor >>> 100% Iron Man. But if Tony plays it smart, some of his more advanced and lethal weaponry could at least tie Thor up for a while. Remember, Tony does have things like auto-targeting missiles and other gadgets, so he could at least play cat and mouse for a bit while bombarding Thor with stuff.

If Tony tries to hit Thor with his missiles and it doesn't even phase him. Then a hammer throw or hit is still waiting for Tony at the end of that exchange.

Originally posted by FrothByte
In a 2 on 1 scenario... who's your 2 and who's your 1?

In both the Avengers movies they mostly just leave Hulk alone to smash enemies. I don't recall any form of smart strategy that he was part of. They asked him to take out a bunker but that's about it.

In my scenario I basically said if Tony can kill of Cap quickly then it would be him and Hulk against Thor. Then they would hope to unbalance him and take advantage

Well I didn't mean to imply Hulk was in anyway overly strategical but he was able to differ ally from enemy. He was also able to coordinate his efforts with Thor, protect bystanders and catch and save a falling Stark. He even was able to turn off his Skype chat with Widow without just breaking it to shit. The only times Hulk was out of control in either film was when he had some mind whammy going on. Any other time he was a good team player.

I just don't think assuming Hulk can't play out a specific role in a plan is accurate. Tho in my scenario all he is doing is attacking Thor. Nothing fancy

Originally posted by Silent Master
When Thor got annoyed in that fight he started crushing Iron-man's armor with his bare hands and later casually back-handed Tony like IM wasn't worth his time. BTW. that was an Iron-man amped to 475% and he in no way held his on, the best you can say is that Tony survived.

Thor was annoyed before that. I never said Thor was going all out but Tony did hold his own in that fight. Was he winning? Nope. Holding? Yessir

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
I am not denying 100% Thor >>> 100% Iron Man. But if Tony plays it smart, some of his more advanced and lethal weaponry could at least tie Thor up for a while. Remember, Tony does have things like auto-targeting missiles and other gadgets, so he could at least play cat and mouse for a bit while bombarding Thor with stuff.

Yes you are correct. Tony's repulsers did affect Thor. Don't think he was hurt but they did take him off his feet iirc. That's all he would need to do to give Hulk the upperhand in a fight. And once Thor starts gaining ground against Hulk (cuz he will) Tony tries to distract or take Thor off his feet again. Not a fool proof plan but I don't see how else they could beat Thor.

Question for the OP:

I know you said the teams could not bring extra equipment with them to the battle but is Tony allowed to summon things once the fight actually starts? If so then they might actually have an ok chance.

Originally posted by juggerman
Yes you are correct. Tony's repulsers did affect Thor. Don't think he was hurt but they did take him off his feet iirc. That's all he would need to do to give Hulk the upperhand in a fight. And once Thor starts gaining ground against Hulk (cuz he will) Tony tries to distract or take Thor off his feet again. Not a fool proof plan but I don't see how else they could beat Thor.

Question for the OP:

I know you said the teams could not bring extra equipment with them to the battle but is Tony allowed to summon things once the fight actually starts? If so then they might actually have an ok chance.

Also Thor has the strategic ability to take Hulk out of the fight by staying the air. He could also summon his massive tornado taking Hulk and Tony for a ride dealing with them one by one.

Hm. If Rogers gives Thor his shield, wouldn't Thor have the ultimate defense/offense combo? Mjolnir + Cap's shield = bad news for Tony/Hulk.

Originally posted by Newjak
Thor also took a point blank Repulser blast to the face in the same fight and didn't budge. It did seem to blind him somewhat but that was about it.

Also Thor has the strategic ability to take Hulk out of the fight by staying the air. He could also summon his massive tornado taking Hulk and Tony for a ride dealing with them one by one.

Did he? Huh maybe I need to rewatch the fight.

Yes and if it were Hulk vs Thor 1 on 1 he could easily do that. But Tony might be able to stop Thor from summoning the twister. He had to wind up a little bit to pull it off against the destroyer. Say he's winding up and Tony blasts him full power in the back? He would likely be sent flying and no tornado. It would also possibly give Hulk an opening.

I feel like you and others thinks I am trying to present this idea as a likely win for Banner/Stark. Honestly I wouldn't give them majority with it. I just see it as the only way they have a slight chance

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Hm. If Rogers gives Thor his shield, wouldn't Thor have the ultimate defense/offense combo? Mjolnir + Cap's shield = bad news for Tony/Hulk.

Nah man that's cheating

Originally posted by juggerman
Did he? Huh maybe I need to rewatch the fight.

Yes and if it were Hulk vs Thor 1 on 1 he could easily do that. But Tony might be able to stop Thor from summoning the twister. He had to wind up a little bit to pull it off against the destroyer. Say he's winding up and Tony blasts him full power in the back? He would likely be sent flying and no tornado. It would also possibly give Hulk an opening.

I feel like you and others thinks I am trying to present this idea as a likely win for Banner/Stark. Honestly I wouldn't give them majority with it. I just see it as the only way they have a slight chance

Also Thor didn't need to wind up to get the tornado started. You can see in his fight with the Destroyer it starts to form when he goes airborne. Mostly the spinning the hammer just seemed to be him giving the the whirlwind the extra juice to overpower the destroyer. You also see him casually blocking the Destroyer's beams while the tornado is still going on. So I'm not sure how easy Tony will be able to distract Thor.

Originally posted by Newjak
I'm not saying you think it is an easy win for Tony/Bruce I am just trying to debate the topics being brought up 🙂.

Also Thor didn't need to wind up to get the tornado started. You can see in his fight with the Destroyer it starts to form when he goes airborne. Mostly the spinning the hammer just seemed to be him giving the the whirlwind the extra juice to overpower the destroyer. You also see him casually blocking the Destroyer's beams while the tornado is still going on. So I'm not sure how easy Tony will be able to distract Thor.

You are right about the tornado. It was whipping up before he started swinging the hammer but it didn't start lifting the Destroyer up until well after the spinning.

And while Thor did take a point blank repulser blast to the face it was much smaller than the other two that sent him flying. My guess is that it was only meant to give Ironman an opening not to do much damage

Also want to point out Thor did not casually bend Stark's armor. If you watch the scene Thor is grimacing while doing it. It took some effort:

YouTube video

I'm pretty sure that grimace is because Thor is pissed off, not because he's having a hard time crumpling the armor.

Also to the question you asked earlier, the combatants can't bring/summon any external devices once the fight starts.

He crushed Tony's armor, which earlier models were shown taking tank shells with only superficial damage, by squeezing with his hand. That's pretty casual.