Yes but if you have the mindset that you're fighting a certain type of opponent and then abruptly find out that your opponents are far more skilled and physically capable then your previously thought you're not going to launch into an attack against an opponent who has just demonstrated an incredibly strong defense when there is another unknown variable ( Anakin ) also in the fight. Not if your smart at least.
Granted that's a hell of a feat for Old Ben but doesn't necessarily indicate a prime Obi Wan's speed. Note also that Vader is stated to be explicitly faster then Obi Wan was in his prime in the Ferus Olin novels.
Do you plan to support this claim?Underestimating his opponents would have led Dooku to draw on less than his full power to defeat them, and that would have effected his Force abilities across the board.
Still waiting on a logical explanation of why Dooku would held back his speed or precog...
Especially when:
He drew their strikes to his parries, and drove his own ripostes with thrusts of dark power that subtly altered the Jedi's balance and disrupted their timing. He could have slaughtered both of them as casually as that creature Maul had destroyed the vigos of the Black Sun.
However, only one death was in his plan, and this dumb-show was becoming tiresome. Not to mention tiring. The dark power that served him went only so far, and he was, after all, not a young man.
For specific reasons, you've provided none as to why its possible for Kenobi to be significantly superior to Dooku when it comes to Force augmentation, an ability directly tied to raw power, not knowledge, experience or innate talent.
Really? Then why do you in your own most powerful thread consider every application of the force? If speed is the be-all and end-all indicator of raw power, then why don't you just decide who is faster and call it a day?
Because Kenobi isn't faster than Yoda?
Nice red herring. Why does Kenobi has to be faster than Yoda to be faster than Dooku? Only because Dooku held his how against him?
Even that aside Yoda was obviously not going balls out.
AotC Yoda > RotS Sidious. Mace = Dooku. Yet Sidious could kill Tiin and Kolar before Mace could react...
Originally posted by redpill
kenobi and maul is like maul and savage and we saw sidious effortlessly solo them.DD vos is just one step below sidious so it'd take a bit more time and work but result is same
Kenobi is above Savage.
We don't know how much effort Sidious expended in his fight with the Zabrak brothers.
DD Vos is faster then Dooku but saying he is just below Sidious is speculation. I would put Maul's speed feats on Dooku's level and Kenobi's Soresu has proved that it can keep up with opponents on an equivalent level to someone like Dooku ( I.E. Anakin, Maul, Grievous ). So now we have Kenobi who has defended against Grievous who can likely put out more blows per second then either Dooku or VoS and Maul who has speed feats that should allow him to contend with Vos. Together they should be able to take Vos out easily.
Originally posted by cs_zoltanHighlighted above, he clearly didn't think they were at all a match for him or a significant threat. All that you've pointed out is Dooku would be reluctant to
Still waiting on a logical explanation of why Dooku would held back his speed or precog...Especially when:
He drew their strikes to his parries, and drove his own ripostes with thrusts of dark power that subtly altered the Jedi's balance and disrupted their timing. He could have slaughtered both of them as casually as that creature Maul had destroyed the vigos of the Black Sun.
However, only one death was in his plan, and this dumb-show was becoming tiresome. Not to mention tiring. The dark power that served him went only so far, and he was, after all, not a young man.
Really? Then why do you in [B]your own most powerful thread consider every application of the force? If speed is the be-all and end-all indicator of raw power, then why don't you just decide who is faster and call it a day?[/b]You're referring to instances where there are small disparities, obviously is someone is baffled by anothers speed, its not even worth making a comparison.
Nice red herring. Why does Kenobi has to be faster than Yoda to be faster than Dooku? Only because Dooku held his how against him?Because Dooku was not baffled by his speed. If Kenobi is too fast for him, Yoda would have driven straight though his defences.
Dooku held strong, though, his red blade parrying brilliantly, each block backed by the power of the Force..
This being in the contexts of Dooku using his real power:
Dooku went into a wild flurry then, the likes of which he had not shown against Obi-Wan or Anakin, raining blows at the diminutive Master.
--Attack of the Clones novelisation
Setting a precedent for him holding back against inferior opponents.
And of course in the contexts of the novelisations, AotC was the last time he faced Kenobi. There is no reason he would go all out when he himself observes next to no improvement in their abilities.
Even that aside Yoda was obviously not going balls out.Because Mace was caught off guard. Yoda on the other hand had no reason to hold back.AotC Yoda > RotS Sidious. Mace = Dooku. Yet Sidious could kill Tiin and Kolar before Mace could react...
Highlighted above, he clearly didn't think they were at all a match for him or a significant threat. All that you've pointed out is Dooku would be reluctant to
How does one get tired so quickly if holding back?
And even if I would (but I don't) concede on Dooku holding back that only really applies to Kenobi vanishing. After that he really had no reason to hold back.
Dooku thought, What?
He threw himself spinning up and away from the two Jedi to land on the situation table, disengaging for a moment to recover his composure—that had been entirely too close—but by the time his boots touched down Kenobi was there to meet him, blade weaving through a defensive velocity so bewilderingly fast that Dooku dared not even try a strike
If Dooku is faster and he was already caught offguard why didn't he ramp it up. He could go all out faster than the snap of a finger, yet he knew that striking at Kenobi would be foolish.
Now it was time to kill.
Kenobi's Master had been Qui-Gon Jinn, Dooku's own Padawan; Dooku had fenced Qui-Gon thousands of times, and he knew every weakness of the Ataro form, with its ridiculous acrobatics. He drove a series of flashing thrusts toward Kenobi's legs to draw the Jedi Master into a flipping overhead leap so that Dooku could burn through his spine from kidneys to shoulder blades—and this image, this plan, was so clear in Dooku's mind that he almost failed to notice that Kenobi met every one of his thrusts without so much as moving his feet, staying perfectly centered, perfectly balanced, blade never moving a millimeter more than was necessary, deflecting without effort, riposting with flickering strikes and stabs swifter than the tongue of a Garollian ghost viper, and when Dooku felt Skywalker regain his feet and stride once more toward his back, he finally registered the source of that blinding defensive velocity Kenobi had used a moment ago, and only then, belatedly, did he understand that Kenobi's Ataro and Shii-Cho had been ploys, as well.
And here again he describes Kenobi as blinding. How is someone slower than himself blinding?
Because Mace was caught off guard. Yoda on the other hand had no reason to hold back.
Yoda was obviously holding back since he comfortably beat Dooku on a DS nexus as well.
Originally posted by Syndicate
Kenobi is above Savage.We don't know how much effort Sidious expended in his fight with the Zabrak brothers.
DD Vos is faster then Dooku but saying he is just below Sidious is speculation. I would put Maul's speed feats on Dooku's level and Kenobi's Soresu has proved that it can keep up with opponents on an equivalent level to someone like Dooku ( I.E. Anakin, Maul, Grievous ). So now we have Kenobi who has defended against Grievous who can likely put out more blows per second then either Dooku or VoS and Maul who has speed feats that should allow him to contend with Vos. Together they should be able to take Vos out easily.
in ROTS we saw how easily dooku could force choke and force pull obi wan.
vos easily force choked and ko asajj ventress so vos can easily do the same to obi wan.
maul lacks speed of vos so vos pwn maul hard.
grevious keep mual busy while vos force chokes obi wan then turns his attention to maul game set and match
Originally posted by redpill
in ROTS we saw how easily dooku could force choke and force pull obi wan.vos easily force choked and ko asajj ventress so vos can easily do the same to obi wan.
maul lacks speed of vos so vos pwn maul hard.
grevious keep mual busy while vos force chokes obi wan then turns his attention to maul game set and match
Vos is not on Dooku's level force wise.
Speed is a large factor in any fight but Maul has most of the other advantages ( I.E. strength, endurance, durability and possibly power in the force ) so it's more even then you might think.
I doubt Vos could abuse any force advantage he has over Kenobi. I already said that the fight favors Grievous and Vos but your claims that Vos could solo the team or easily beat either Maul or Kenobi is simply untrue.
Originally posted by Syndicateim not sosure about that
Vos is not on Dooku's level force wise.Speed is a large factor in any fight but Maul has most of the other advantages ( I.E. strength, endurance, durability and possibly power in the force ) so it's more even then you might think.
I doubt Vos could abuse any force advantage he has over Kenobi. I already said that the fight favors Grievous and Vos but your claims that Vos could solo the team or easily beat either Maul or Kenobi is simply untrue.
was dooku able to force choked asajj
if i recall dooku asked savage to take of asajj
You need to be Sidious or Yoda to defeat both Kenobi and Maul at once. You can argue vos's stronger than each of them, but if he's superior, he's not on a completely different level where he could solo them. Force-wise at best you can say Quinlan is equal to them since Dooku was still portrayed as more powerful during their second duel, saber-wise Quin should be stronger though. Now you can say that the gap in saber skill between Vos and Maul/Kenobi is wider than the gap in force power, thus allowing him to win a majority one vs one, but 2 vs 1 is too much to handle
Originally posted by Total Warriori think its worth pointing out that dooku solo'd obi wan and anakin in atc and came close to it in rots.
You need to be Sidious or Yoda to defeat both Kenobi and Maul at once. You can argue vos's stronger than each of them, but if he's superior, he's not on a completely different level where he could solo them. Force-wise at best you can say Quinlan is equal to them since Dooku was still portrayed as more powerful during their second duel, saber-wise Quin should be stronger though. Now you can say that the gap in saber skill between Vos and Maul/Kenobi is wider than the gap in force power, thus allowing him to win a majority one vs one, but 2 vs 1 is too much to handle
saber skills of dooku was enuff to solo obi wan and anakin
and i do think vos is close to yoda and sidious one level below, since he is above dooku and dooku is close to yoda