Darth Vader (ROTJ) and Ahsoka (Rebels) vs Sidious (ROTJ)

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Except for canonical statements by the authors. And since Vader is my favorite character in the mythos, and I hate Palpatine the most, I'm not sure how my perception is biased exactly.

It's almost like Vader grabbed him while he was distracted or something.

The point is saying something as vague as the force wins the battle isn't really saying much of anything.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Your perception is horribly biased whether you see it or not. Why didn't the force help him while he was picked up or before being tossed ?

The point is saying something as vague as the force wins the battle isn't really saying much of anything.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Probably because Vader already grabbed him and is stronger, especially with cybernetically enhanced strength.

Because these vs matches assume neutral ground and them facing each other, which he clearly wasn't doing.

You are right in this thread Vader has his saber and in the one matchup Sidious doesn't have his. He's screwed there.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Onus is on you to back your claim.

We have been over this already, but if I must degrade myself to prove something this simple I'll end it now. Look at his apprentices. Dooku<Vader. Dooku needed help to defeat ROTS Sidiois. Vader was said to be about 80% of ROTJ Sidious and since Vader better than Dooku, Sidious would only have had to increase in power for Vader to need help to defeat Sidious.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
We have been over this already, but if I must degrade myself to prove something this simple I'll end it now. Look at his apprentices. Dooku<Vader. Dooku needed help to defeat ROTS Sidiois. Vader was said to be about 80% of ROTJ Sidious and since Vader better than Dooku, Sidious would only have had to increase in power for Vader to need help to defeat Sidious.

Originally posted by quanchi112
That is conjecture not proof.

Actaully no. SOD comic which is canon states that Vader is more powerful than Dooku. It was confirmed that Vader was 80% of Sidious. Sidious would have had to have become more powerful in order for Vader to need help to take down Sidious.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Actaully no. SOD comic which is canon states that Vader is more powerful than Dooku. It was confirmed that Vader was 80% of Sidious. Sidious would have had to have become more powerful in order for Vader to need help to take down Sidious.

Originally posted by quanchi112
When was it confirmed Vader is 80 percent power level of Sidious ? Prove it. So you can't prove his power level increased and are doing mental gymnastics to get there.

From George Lucas himself.

He is stated by George Lucas to be 20% weaker than Palpatine, the most powerful Sith Lord ever:

“Anakin, as Skywalker, as a human being, was going to be extremely powerful,” he says. “But he ended up losing his legs and an arm and became partly a robot. So a lot of his ability to use the Force, a lot of his powers, are curbed at this point, because, as a living form, there’s not that much of him left. So his ability to be twice as good as the Emperor disappeared, and now he’s maybe 20 percent less than him. So that isn’t what the Emperor had in mind. He wanted this really super guy, but that got derailed by Obi-Wan. So he finds that, with Luke, he can get a more primo version if he can turn Luke to the Dark Side. You’ll see, as this goes on, Luke is faced with the same issues and practically the same scenes that Anakin is faced with. Anakin says yes and Luke says no.”
-- Star Wars: The Last Battle, Vanity Fair Magazine, 2005

Also it's just connect the points. If Sidious is at ROTS form. Dooku who is weaker than Vader needed help to beat him. Then we see Vader who is 20% less than ROTJ Sidious, and also that the Jedi holocrons vault was also open to Sidious, and the fact he has a larger force to go and find Sith secrets and knowledge to make more powers to use, and the Vader and Dooku connection, yes Sidious is more powerful as of ROTJ then in ROTS.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
From George Lucas himself.

He is stated by George Lucas to be 20% weaker than Palpatine, the most powerful Sith Lord ever:

“Anakin, as Skywalker, as a human being, was going to be extremely powerful,” he says. “But he ended up losing his legs and an arm and became partly a robot. So a lot of his ability to use the Force, a lot of his powers, are curbed at this point, because, as a living form, there’s not that much of him left. So his ability to be twice as good as the Emperor disappeared, and now he’s maybe 20 percent less than him. So that isn’t what the Emperor had in mind. He wanted this really super guy, but that got derailed by Obi-Wan. So he finds that, with Luke, he can get a more primo version if he can turn Luke to the Dark Side. You’ll see, as this goes on, Luke is faced with the same issues and practically the same scenes that Anakin is faced with. Anakin says yes and Luke says no.”
-- Star Wars: The Last Battle, Vanity Fair Magazine, 2005

Also it's just connect the points. If Sidious is at ROTS form. Dooku who is weaker than Vader needed help to beat him. Then we see Vader who is 20% less than ROTJ Sidious, and also that the Jedi holocrons vault was also open to Sidious, and the fact he has a larger force to go and find Sith secrets and knowledge to make more powers to use, and the Vader and Dooku connection, yes Sidious is more powerful as of ROTJ then in ROTS.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Being less than Sidious is what I've always maintained but none of that statement has anything to do with comparing their light saber skills. In this thread the one Sidious loses is due to him not having a saber. Yoda wasn't even able to best Dooku on force power alone whom you agree is less powerful than Vader. Boom.

Well I will say ok try I suppose, but I shall put this down.

1) I persoanlly never disputed that Vader was more powerful but I did just prove that Vader was where I said he was.

2) We were talking about power, not lightsaber skill.

3) Just because he doesn't have a saber doesn't mean he can't win. He has the force. I'm fine with your position since its actaully the first logical one you've ever had and makes since, I just disagree.

4) you would have to show that Yoda was using his offensive force powers to best Dooku which you can't because he wasn't. He was fighting with either purely defensive force powers or purely lightsaber combat.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Ok so the force can't help one from being physically overpowered. 😂

You are right in this thread Vader has his saber and in the one matchup Sidious doesn't have his. He's screwed there.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Well I will say ok try I suppose, but I shall put this down.

1) I persoanlly never disputed that Vader was more powerful but I did just prove that Vader was where I said he was.

2) We were talking about power, not lightsaber skill.

3) Just because he doesn't have a saber doesn't mean he can't win. He has the force. I'm fine with your position since its actaully the first logical one you've ever had and makes since, I just disagree.

4) you would have to show that Yoda was using his offensive force powers to best Dooku which you can't because he wasn't. He was fighting with either purely defensive force powers or purely lightsaber combat.

2) talking about it all in this thread since it's relevant.

3) he needed a saber against maul and Opress. Name the best Jedi or Sith he defeated without a Lightsaber while being in the same room.

4) Yoda knew the stakes and chose not to. Shame. Pathetic, really.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Vader also has the Force, so....

If a lightsaber was all Vader needed to kill Sidious, he would have done it a long time ago.

It helps when you couple his powers and skill with the saber. Without a saber his odds decrease. Vader lacked the spine and motivation but did so when he had hand and without using any force powers.

😂

quanchi's like KMC debating's hoard mode lol.

Originally posted by quanchi112
1) so you concede.

2) talking about it all in this thread since it's relevant.

3) he needed a saber against maul and Opress. Name the best Jedi or Sith he defeated without a Lightsaber while being in the same room.

4) Yoda knew the stakes and chose not to. Shame. Pathetic, really.

How do I concede I proved that Vader was 80% of Sidious like I said.

2) Fine with that.

3) He didn't need his sabers since he did have them pinned against a wall from the start.

4) In other words he didn't thus your point is crushed.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
How do I concede I proved that Vader was 80% of Sidious like I said.

2) Fine with that.

3) He didn't need his sabers since he did have them pinned against a wall from the start.

4) In other words he didn't thus your point is crushed.

Good.

He needed his s ambers for when they attacked him. He didn't defeat them with that force push, kiddo.

No, you never made a logical point.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You conceded that it didn't matter.

Good.

He needed his s ambers for when they attacked him. He didn't defeat them with that force push, kiddo.

No, you never made a logical point.

No I didn't I just said that I never disagreed that Vader was stronger but we disagreed on how much and I showed you how.

So you don't disagree that he could have thus destroying your on point.

Yea I did. Saying that Yoda didn't defeat Dooku with his more advanced force powers without looking at the context you are lost. The context is he never used offensive force powers, and you didn't dispute that thus you,conceded.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
No I didn't I just said that I never disagreed that Vader was stronger but we disagreed on how much and I showed you how.

So you don't disagree that he could have thus destroying your on point.

Yea I did. Saying that Yoda didn't defeat Dooku with his more advanced force powers without looking at the context you are lost. The context is he never used offensive force powers, and you didn't dispute that thus you,conceded.

What ?

We have a clear force duel and Yoda failed to do so. He knew the stakes yet was not good enough to beat someone less than himself.

Originally posted by quanchi112
My point was that it doesn't matter since he has a saber and Sidious doesn't.

What ?

We have a clear force duel and Yoda failed to do so. He knew the stakes yet was not good enough to beat someone less than himself.

While that is true for the first round you don't need a saber especially when you have the power Sidious does.

Uhhh. Sidious had them pinned and you agree he let them go thus you agree that he could have defeated them then and there with TK.

Did he use any offensive force powers? That's the question you need to answer. He never unleashed his own TK blast, he just simply deflected and redirected everything Dooku threw at him. Tell me if I'm wrong and if so show me how.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
While that is true for the first round you don't need a saber especially when you have the power Sidious does.

Uhhh. Sidious had them pinned and you agree he let them go thus you agree that he could have defeated them then and there with TK.

Did he use any offensive force powers? That's the question you need to answer. He never unleashed his own TK blast, he just simply deflected and redirected everything Dooku threw at him. Tell me if I'm wrong and if so show me how.

He also released them so he's an idiot. He needed his sabers.

You tried moving the goalposts. The point is Yoda failed. Undeniable. 😂