Darth Vader (ROTJ) and Ahsoka (Rebels) vs Sidious (ROTJ)

Originally posted by quanchi112
Yes, you do hence why Vader killed him with one hand. M

He also released them so he's an idiot. He needed his sabers.

You tried moving the goalposts. The point is Yoda failed. Undeniable. 😂

No you don't. Vader wouldn't fight him by himself due to his force power more than his deuling skills.

How is he an idiot. Why should he take Maul and Savge seriously. He wanted to have fun and it was safe for him. He's not an idiot for letting them go, but more to the point thanks for the concession since you agree he released.

No what's the point in saying someone didn't win something if they never used any offense. Even Kenobi who is a defensive fighter even he uses offense. No that isn't the point, what I said is the point.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
No you don't. Vader wouldn't fight him by himself due to his force power more than his deuling skills.

How is he an idiot. Why should he take Maul and Savge seriously. He wanted to have fun and it was safe for him. He's not an idiot for letting them go, but more to the point thanks for the concession since you agree he released.

No what's the point in saying someone didn't win something if they never used any offense. Even Kenobi who is a defensive fighter even he uses offense. No that isn't the point, what I said is the point.

He should have taken Luke more seriously. He also is sloppy and was not ever shown to be able to force tk them whenever he wanted. Prove it.

Then prove it. You made the claim. Yoda failed and used his force powers offensively just like Kenobi. Awful debating.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He did take him on by himself when he had one hand and no saber.

He should have taken Luke more seriously. He also is sloppy and was not ever shown to be able to force tk them whenever he wanted. Prove it.

Then prove it. You made the claim. Yoda failed and used his force powers offensively just like Kenobi. Awful debating.

So what was all that in Empire Strikes Back that he needed Luke's help?

It wasn't Luke who was the problem, he was killing Luke. Also this is about Maul and Savge. It feels good for you to know that your best character SUCCCCCCCKSSSSSS.. The fact he started off TKing both of them, TK'd maul in the middle of the fight, TK'd Savage, then he then ragdolled Maul after disarming him, so yea he could have gotten them whenever.

He didn't use offensive powers. Only thing offensive he did was ending Dooku's lightning back at him. Other than that he never used his own TK to attack so to say his force powers failed to get the job done is like saying you failed to get the job done as president of the USA. You can't fail at something you never did or use.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
So what was all that in Empire Strikes Back that he needed Luke's help?

It wasn't Luke who was the problem, he was killing Luke. Also this is about Maul and Savge. It feels good for you to know that your best character SUCCCCCCCKSSSSSS.. The fact he started off TKing both of them, TK'd maul in the middle of the fight, TK'd Savage, then he then ragdolled Maul after disarming him, so yea he could have gotten them whenever.

He didn't use offensive powers. Only thing offensive he did was ending Dooku's lightning back at him. Other than that he never used his own TK to attack so to say his force powers failed to get the job done is like saying you failed to get the job done as president of the USA. You can't fail at something you never did or use.

Luke was the problem as he forced his father to make the decision to swap and kill his weak, geriatric master.

Maul is alive he just wasn't the best at that time. That's fine as I acmoledge facts whereas you don't.

He used his powers to defeat Dooku. He failed. You have created this false theory you need to prove.

Yoda was the epitome of failure.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He wanted his son on his side. He alluded to in rots he was going to seize power.

Luke was the problem as he forced his father to make the decision to swap and kill his weak, geriatric master.

Maul is alive he just wasn't the best at that time. That's fine as I acmoledge facts whereas you don't.

He used his powers to defeat Dooku. He failed. You have created this false theory you need to prove.

Yoda was the epitome of failure.

Guess what, this is about suited Vader who lost all that potential. That Vader the more powerful and skilled one, needed help to overthrow the emperor.

Again Luke wasn't the issue. He had Luke taken care of.

And he won't be the best in TFA if he is n the film. He might have declined in skill maybe, being in his late 60s to early 70s if I'm not mistaken. Maybe even 80s. I'm not sure how I don't acknowledge facts though.

Were they offensive. If it's a theory then disprove that I said he didn't use offensive force powers. That's the point here. He can't defeat someone with force powers if he never went on offense. Only time he really went on offense was when he sent Dooku's lighting back at him.

Still #1 deulist, and #2 force weilder.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Guess what, this is about suited Vader who lost all that potential. That Vader the more powerful and skilled one, needed help to overthrow the emperor.

Again Luke wasn't the issue. He had Luke taken care of.

And he won't be the best in TFA if he is n the film. He might have declined in skill maybe, being in his late 60s to early 70s if I'm not mistaken. Maybe even 80s. I'm not sure how I don't acknowledge facts though.

Were they offensive. If it's a theory then disprove that I said he didn't use offensive force powers. That's the point here. He can't defeat someone with force powers if he never went on offense. Only time he really went on offense was when he sent Dooku's lighting back at him.

Still #1 deulist, and #2 force weilder.

Luke was the reason he changed. He was the issue.

Speculation. He comes from an alien species not a human being, kiddo.

Your theory but he wanted to defeat Dooku. He failed.

Iyo.

Originally posted by quanchi112
At no point was this even alluded to as the reasons. He was emotionally unstable and all over the map and made his choice in the heat of the moment.

Luke was the reason he changed. He was the issue.

Speculation. He comes from an alien species not a human being, kiddo.

Your theory but he wanted to defeat Dooku. He failed.

Iyo.

Doesn't really matter. His actions throughout life limited him. He wasn't training himself well enough to actaully be up to par, at least with his force powers. I mean come on, equal to Obi wan? That's to weak for someone lies him. Darth Vader, would destroy Obi wan. He actaully used what he had and made it work. All of the following are reasons you silly.

No Vader was the issue. Take Vader out everything is still the same. Vader was supposed to stay still and let Luke die, that's how Sidious trained him. Everything over the past 2 decades Sidious did to make sure he had complete control over Vader and Sidious did that, but Vader some how broke that.

Actaully it's not. He was around his 20s-30s by end of TCW or SOD where we see him last. 20 years went by from then to ROTJ I believe. So that's 50s. Then in between ROTJ to TFA is 30 years so 80s there. That right there is a 50-60 year gap, that he most likely quant been trianing. So? Prove his species has an aging factor that wards the effects of age off.

Facts aren't theories. Did he use any offensive force powers besides sending lightning back? Yes or No?

Actaully it's fact. By ROTS he disarmed Sidious and was his equal in the force of maybe slightly lower with Sidious getting the slight edge. He's better than Windu and Anakin and Dooku who are the closest contenders.

So the list goes for deuling

Yoda
Sidious
Anakin(Invisble Hand)
Dooku/Windu
Obi wan
The rest follow.

The force

Sidious/Yoda
Dooku/Windu
Anakin/Obi wan

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2

So the list goes for deuling

Yoda
Sidious
Anakin(Invisble Hand)
Dooku/Windu
Obi wan
The rest follow.

The force

Sidious/Yoda
Dooku/Windu
Anakin/Obi wan

What's the problem.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Doesn't really matter. His actions throughout life limited him. He wasn't training himself well enough to actaully be up to par, at least with his force powers. I mean come on, equal to Obi wan? That's to weak for someone lies him. Darth Vader, would destroy Obi wan. He actaully used what he had and made it work. All of the following are reasons you silly.

No Vader was the issue. Take Vader out everything is still the same. Vader was supposed to stay still and let Luke die, that's how Sidious trained him. Everything over the past 2 decades Sidious did to make sure he had complete control over Vader and Sidious did that, but Vader some how broke that.

Actaully it's not. He was around his 20s-30s by end of TCW or SOD where we see him last. 20 years went by from then to ROTJ I believe. So that's 50s. Then in between ROTJ to TFA is 30 years so 80s there. That right there is a 50-60 year gap, that he most likely quant been trianing. So? Prove his species has an aging factor that wards the effects of age off.

Facts aren't theories. Did he use any offensive force powers besides sending lightning back? Yes or No?

Actaully it's fact. By ROTS he disarmed Sidious and was his equal in the force of maybe slightly lower with Sidious getting the slight edge. He's better than Windu and Anakin and Dooku who are the closest contenders.

So the list goes for deuling

Yoda
Sidious
Anakin(Invisble Hand)
Dooku/Windu
Obi wan
The rest follow.

The force

Sidious/Yoda
Dooku/Windu
Anakin/Obi wan

Vader didn't hence sidious' poor decision making which cost him his life. He also brought this up to Vader so he already worried about this.

You stated he would be worse so it's your claim to prove. He doesn't belong to the human race so quit judging him by those standards.

You still don't know the difference between a theory and a fact.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Speculation.

Vader didn't hence sidious' poor decision making which cost him his life. He also brought this up to Vader so he already worried about this.

You stated he would be worse so it's your claim to prove. He doesn't belong to the human race so quit judging him by those standards.

You still don't know the difference between a theory and a fact.

How is that specualtion. It's right there in the movie. His highest feat was stalemtaing Obi wan in a force contest. Pretty low for the chosen one.

He already brought it up and believed it was settled in his favor and he should have. He spent the last 20+ years making sure Gader was under his thumb, and he did that but Anakin skywalker came back and caused that switch.

It's common sense that if you don't practice then you're skill will leave you, then if you don't practice for 50-60+ years than yes your skills in the force and the blade will deteriorate. Also he is a humanoid species actaully. So yes I will hold him to human standards since you can't prove there isn't an age factor for his species. You made the claim that since he is an alien species then that means he won't age the same? What is the disparity? That's what you need to prove.

I think it's you who doesn't. Also show me where he uses off waive force powers besides sending Dooku's lightning back.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
How is that specualtion. It's right there in the movie. His highest feat was stalemtaing Obi wan in a force contest. Pretty low for the chosen one.

He already brought it up and believed it was settled in his favor and he should have. He spent the last 20+ years making sure Gader was under his thumb, and he did that but Anakin skywalker came back and caused that switch.

It's common sense that if you don't practice then you're skill will leave you, then if you don't practice for 50-60+ years than yes your skills in the force and the blade will deteriorate. Also he is a humanoid species actaully. So yes I will hold him to human standards since you can't prove there isn't an age factor for his species. You made the claim that since he is an alien species then that means he won't age the same? What is the disparity? That's what you need to prove.

I think it's you who doesn't. Also show me where he uses off waive force powers besides sending Dooku's lightning back.

So he blew twenty years and ended up being wrong. What an idiot. In 20 years you should know someone but Palpatine obviously didn't.

Prove he didn't practice. He isn't a human being.

He wanted to win and didn't. Onus is on you to prove he purposely held back.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Prove his training wasn't up to par. Kenobi also beat him at his best.

So he blew twenty years and ended up being wrong. What an idiot. In 20 years you should know someone but Palpatine obviously didn't.

Prove he didn't practice. He isn't a human being.

He wanted to win and didn't. Onus is on you to prove he purposely held back.

He was only able to stalemate Kenobi. He spent more time with his LIGHTSBAER deuling and this is also shown by how people like Vantress or Barris can break through his force wall on a,constant basis. Also in AOTC Kenobi says "If you spent more time practicing your lightsaber techniques as much as you do your flying you would rival master Yoda as a swordsmem? He says that in AOTC, then in ROTS we see he is on Yoda level after training so much. At least his Invisble Hand moment he is on Yoda level.

He did. He most likely didn't understand a fathers love since he didn't have it.

Why would he? He has no drive. He has no goal. He can't get to any level of the top people, and Sidious is dead now. He has no reason to train. He is humanoid, so he would age relatively the same as humans. I agree that he may have a slight edge with age but at Thai time he has defintly aged and it most likely has taken its tole.

Watch the Yoda vs Dooku fight. He uses no offensive force powers with the exception of the lighting thing.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
He was only able to stalemate Kenobi. He spent more time with his LIGHTSBAER deuling and this is also shown by how people like Vantress or Barris can break through his force wall on a,constant basis. Also in AOTC Kenobi says "If you spent more time practicing your lightsaber techniques as much as you do your flying you would rival master Yoda as a swordsmem? He says that in AOTC, then in ROTS we see he is on Yoda level after training so much. At least his Invisble Hand moment he is on Yoda level.

He did. He most likely didn't understand a fathers love since he didn't have it.

Why would he? He has no drive. He has no goal. He can't get to any level of the top people, and Sidious is dead now. He has no reason to train. He is humanoid, so he would age relatively the same as humans. I agree that he may have a slight edge with age but at Thai time he has defintly aged and it most likely has taken its tole.

Watch the Yoda vs Dooku fight. He uses no offensive force powers with the exception of the lighting thing.

Palpatine erred and it cost him his life. Idiot.

You are saying he has no drive when he had a drive the entire time during clone wars after his mind was restored. You are speculating which isn't proof.

Yoda tried and lost. Your stance is just conjecture.

Originally posted by quanchi112
That doesn't mean he quits dueling and practicing that just means he doesn't obsessively practice as much as Kenobi would like him to.

Palpatine erred and it cost him his life. Idiot.

You are saying he has no drive when he had a drive the entire time during clone wars after his mind was restored. You are speculating which isn't proof.

Yoda tried and lost. Your stance is just conjecture.

Exactly so that strength and power has decreased due to not angling that level of practice, not saying he is compleltey bad, but not as good as he used to.

An idiot couldn't take an entire government and Darth Vader and Dooku.

What was the drive though? Answer that and your point is crushed.

https://youtu.be/PLV-Vpy1gqQm 0:10-1:08 that's the force duel. Now, tell me again how this is conjecture.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Exactly so that strength and power has decreased due to not angling that level of practice, not saying he is compleltey bad, but not as good as he used to.

An idiot couldn't take an entire government and Darth Vader and Dooku.

What was the drive though? Answer that and your point is crushed.

https://youtu.be/PLV-Vpy1gqQm 0:10-1:08 that's the force duel. Now, tell me again how this is conjecture.

When you're surrounded by other idiots of course you could.

So ? Conjecture.

Originally posted by quanchi112
That wasn't around the time of him in the suit and he defeated Dooku so you're saying he didn't trees to be at his best. 😂

When you're surrounded by other idiots of course you could.

So ? Conjecture.

This Vader without the suit. He wasn't training enough, this is shown by how he was only able to stalemate Kenobi. Lightsaber training was his speciality, the force not so much. This all wraps up to him not being as strong as he could be sense lower level force users could penetrate his shields. Also what wasn't around.

These are senators like Padme and Bail, these aren't idiots. He is just very manipulative and smart.

Concession accepted. You didn't respond to this one.

Where the proof of that? I posted the video and I told you to tell me how me saying Yoda not using offensive force powers is conjecture. Saying conjecture isn't proving it son.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
This Vader without the suit. He wasn't training enough, this is shown by how he was only able to stalemate Kenobi. Lightsaber training was his speciality, the force not so much. This all wraps up to him not being as strong as he could be sense lower level force users could penetrate his shields. Also what wasn't around.

These are senators like Padme and Bail, these aren't idiots. He is just very manipulative and smart.

Concession accepted. You didn't respond to this one.

Where the proof of that? I posted the video and I told you to tell me how me saying Yoda not using offensive force powers is conjecture. Saying conjecture isn't proving it son.

Idiots since the dark lord was around him the entire time.

Yes, I'd did. What you're saying is conjecture not the scene but you're not smart enough to grasp that.

ES2, stop debating in favor of characters I like.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Speculative but the best part is he killed Dooku thus making him look pathetic.

Idiots since the dark lord was around him the entire time.

Yes, I'd did. What you're saying is conjecture not the scene but you're not smart enough to grasp that.

Actually not, since weaker force weilders continuously break through his guard, and while he has a lot of raw power, he comes up short.

Again incredibly manipulative and smart.

The scen itself showed he didn't use offensive force powers, so.