Dooku and Mace are far from being "consistent".
I would agree, that Yoda is.
Originally posted by Lord Stark
Mace statemates Talzin for several minutes. Sidious stomps her in seconds stating she "lacks Dooku's skills". Sidious loses to Mace...pretty damned inconsistent for all the characters.
There is nothing inconsistent here. Dooku stomped a guy, who Mace stalemated. Dooku stomped Ventress, while Mace couldn't. Dooku had much easier time against Grievous. And still, it was a tie between him and Mace.
Sidiois let himself to be beaten, or Mace had an incredible amp. On neutral ground/circumstances Mace was inferior to Sidious.
Originally posted by McP
There is nothing inconsistent here.
Precisely.
Originally posted by McP
Dooku stomped a guy, who Mace stalemated. Dooku stomped Ventress, while Mace couldn't. Dooku had much easier time against Grievous. And still, it was a tie between him and Mace.
People on this board need to learn about the importance of circumstances and variable factors.
1) Dooku defeated Bulq through Force powers, not duelling. Additionally Bulq and Mace had worked together to develop Vaapad so Bulq had a much better understanding of how Mace fights, an edge he didn't have against Dooku.
Also technically Mace defeated Bulq the same way as Dooku, with Force powers. Mace slammed him with a Force push that briefly put him out of action. Had Mace not had to leave to save Jeisel and K'Kruhk he could have finished Bulq off right there.
2) Asajj ran from Mace because she was no match for him. She admitted that fleeing was her only option.
3) Dooku trained Grievous and so knew how he fought. Of course he'd have an easier time against him. Familiarity with the opponent is a huge edge.
Originally posted by Q99
Sora lost to non-DD Vos
Only due to an unexpected development. Quinlan was preoccupied with battling his inner darkness. Bulq saw he was vulnerable and so left himself open. Ayla contacted Quinlan on the mental plane and helped him overcome his darkness just in time for him to strike Bulq down while he was open.
Put simply, Quinlan didn't straight-up out-fight him. He just took advantage of a brief window of opportunity presented by circumstances.
Also Bulq had only recently turned to the dark side when he fought Mace and so still had much of his discipline. By the time he fought Quinlan Bulq had been steeped in the dark side for three years and had lost his focus, becoming just a berserker.
Originally posted by Lord Stark
Mace statemates Talzin for several minutes. Sidious stomps her in seconds stating she "lacks Dooku's skills".
Talzin fought Palpatine while possessing Dooku, meaning that:
A) Dooku may have been subconsciously resisting the possession (pure speculation but feasible).
B) Talzin was trying to fight in an unfamiliar body.
C) She was trying to use a weapon she was unfamiliar with. Say you're an expert with a Chinese jian. Now say you have to fight with a Japanese katana or a British longsword. Both are completely different to the weapon that you're used to. They handle differently, they're balanced differently, they require different stances etc.
When she fought Mace she had none of these handicaps.
Originally posted by chilled monkey
1) Dooku defeated Bulq through Force powers, not duelling.
Originally posted by chilled monkey
Mace slammed him with a Force push that briefly put him out of action. Had Mace not had to leave to save Jeisel and K'Kruhk he could have finished Bulq off right there.
Originally posted by chilled monkey
2) Asajj ran from Mace because she was no match for him. She admitted that fleeing was her only option.
Originally posted by chilled monkey
3) Dooku trained Grievous and so knew how he fought. Of course he'd have an easier time against him. Familiarity with the opponent is a huge edge.
Originally posted by chilled monkey
A) Dooku may have been subconsciously resisting the possession (pure speculation but feasible).
Originally posted by chilled monkey
B) Talzin was trying to fight in an unfamiliar body.
Originally posted by chilled monkey
When she fought Mace she had none of these handicaps.
Well ,I have to agree ,Mace Windu .
Yoda is a teacher,a sage at heart,and he doesn't like to fight.
nor does he like to use his lightsaber.
my second choice would be Count Dooku. With Sora,Depa,and Quinlan
neck and neck for third.
Asaja Ventress my personal 4th.
Even Master Yoda acknowledges Sora Bulq's influence and abilities.
I wouldn't consider him a minor,a berserker maybe, but a minor not by a long shot.
He has trained many Jedi to be lightsaber duelists.
His complete story was never told.
Depa Billiba also.
I agree with Beniboybling on this one.
The Amp or Vaapad's Force amplification could be achieved in any duel against any dark sider.
I've been saying this for a long time.
Djem So starts off with using your emotions,Juyo takes it to another level, Juyo is the Mastery of control not the loss of it. Vaapad,goes beyond Djem So and Juyo.
Speaking of consistent and non,So we can rule out Anakin's and Vader's amp through the Dark
side and rage right?
Anakin's amp being Force enhanced strength to better use Djem So's brute strength or brute force?
Vader's amp physical amp being his Sith Alchemied Armor and Cybernetic limbs,
And the Sith's basic technique of feeding off the Dark Side,
Feeding off fear ,pain, and etc?
Respectfully and realistically looking at it from all angles.
The Amplification is not just Mace/Vaapad but Anakin/Vader and Palpatine as well.
But emotion which fuels Djem So,Juyo,Vaapad,and the Dark Side.
So if we rule out Mace then Anakin,Vader,and Palpatine should be ruled out as well.
But realistically and respectfully I won't debate this any further.
Originally posted by chilled monkey
Precisely.People on this board need to learn about the importance of circumstances and variable factors.
1) Dooku defeated Bulq through Force powers, not duelling. Additionally Bulq and Mace had worked together to develop Vaapad so Bulq had a much better understanding of how Mace fights, an edge he didn't have against Dooku.
Also technically Mace defeated Bulq the same way as Dooku, with Force powers. Mace slammed him with a Force push that briefly put him out of action. Had Mace not had to leave to save Jeisel and K'Kruhk he could have finished Bulq off right there.
2) Asajj ran from Mace because she was no match for him. She admitted that fleeing was her only option.
3) Dooku trained Grievous and so knew how he fought. Of course he'd have an easier time against him. Familiarity with the opponent is a huge edge.
Only due to an unexpected development. Quinlan was preoccupied with battling his inner darkness. Bulq saw he was vulnerable and so left himself open. Ayla contacted Quinlan on the mental plane and helped him overcome his darkness just in time for him to strike Bulq down while he was open.
Put simply, Quinlan didn't straight-up out-fight him. He just took advantage of a brief window of opportunity presented by circumstances.
Also Bulq had only recently turned to the dark side when he fought Mace and so still had much of his discipline. By the time he fought Quinlan Bulq had been steeped in the dark side for three years and had lost his focus, becoming just a berserker.
Talzin fought Palpatine while possessing Dooku, meaning that:
A) Dooku may have been subconsciously resisting the possession (pure speculation but feasible).
B) Talzin was trying to fight in an unfamiliar body.
C) She was trying to use a weapon she was unfamiliar with. Say you're an expert with a Chinese jian. Now say you have to fight with a Japanese katana or a British longsword. Both are completely different to the weapon that you're used to. They handle differently, they're balanced differently, they require different stances etc.
When she fought Mace she had none of these handicaps.
I agree.
Dooku taught Grievous the Jedi Arts.
And in his duel with Mace he learned an unknown fraction,a percentage of Vaapad.
Which Mace deemed passable.
Dooku(imo) knew that Juyo was weak against Force attacks.
If that was the chosen style Sora used when he blindingly (imo)again charged at Dooku
like Anakin did and got a hand full of Force lightning which rendered them both
unconscious.
I mean that's what the pic showed .
I didn't see them duel. to be honest.
From my understanding I think Sora wanted to join Dooku.
But had to sell the stunt to Tholme by taking himself out the duel which left Tholme alone to fight Dooku.
Unless Sora underestimated Dooku abilities and charged blindingly into a fight he couldn't win.
Who knows, it was said Sora had already fallen to the darkside possibly through the refinement of Vaapad.
Originally posted by Q99
Mm, in RotS alone, Kenobi got KOed by Dooku (while Dooku had other things to worry about), then beat the one who beat Dooku.
True, but he performed much better than he did in AOTC, and he himself(in old EU) notes that he finds it difficult to keep a Barrier while fighting so yeh.
He was nearly stomped by Dooku in TCWs6.
He was overhelmed by Savage in TCWs4 (Maul was a small discraction there though), and then took out Savage's arm in S5 (Savage was even supported by Maul)
Also, from what I hread, that unfinished episodes of TCW (utapau story) are also a canon. And Kenobi was stomped by Grievous there. Even in Legends, he had a lot of inconsistent showings, mostly against Ventress (at it should be noted, that he was also disarmed by her in TCW)
Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
True, but he performed much better than he did in AOTC, and he himself(in old EU) notes that he finds it difficult to keep a Barrier while fighting so yeh.
Which is part of the reason he's inconsistent.
Once he's analyzed a foe and has their number, he'll really mess them up (Savage, Anakin, A'Sharad). If not, he can receive a good boot to the face.