The OFFICIAL 'Is there more than one Matrix?' thread

cant u answer it right???

Reasons why I believe there is more than one “level” to the Matrix:

- Explains how Neo can zap the squiddies at the end (they’re still in the Matrix).
- Explains how Agent Smith (a Program) can leave the Matrix and enter the real world. (the “real world” is still part of the Matrix)
- Explains how/why Zion was wiped and reloaded 5 previous times (like everything else it is virtual [relative])
- Explains how Neo is able to revive Trinity after she is shot. It explains why if you die in the Matrix you also die in the “real world”. (There is no “real world” [only the Matrix], and no one is actually "dying".
- Remember the scene just before Neo, Trinity, and Morpheus are getting ready to head back and re-visit the Oracle? As they are leaving “the Kid” runs up and gives Neo something – a spoon from “one of the orphans” … there is no spoon.
- How can Neo be “real” and yet had 5 previous incarnations that he has absolutely no memory of?
- What exactly is the difference between the ‘humans” and the “programs”? There is no observable way to tell one from the other (short of the ear-mics)
- The whole speech with the Architect (the Progenitor).
- The whole speech with the Oracle.
- The whole speech with the Merovingian.
- The whole speech with the Counselor.

What someone said in another thread. That The first Matrix (diaster matrix that was supposed to be perfect) is the 'real world'. I think that could be right.

Every single point Serpent makes can be more easily explained WITHOUT the real world being in the Matrix and already has been done so in this thread so please read threads thoroughly before posting.

jimbo3 said:
What someone said in another thread. That The first Matrix (disaster matrix that was supposed to be perfect) is the 'real world'. I think that could be right.

I think the “first perfect Matrix” is a mythological-philosophical reference to a lost paradise.

Like the garden of Eden in Christianity.

The Architect is the Progenitor – like God (or Adam) in Genesis.
The Oracle is Eve, She’s the one that picked the apple and started all the trouble. (recall the Oracle is supposedly “an intuitive “program” designed to seek out those who rejected the perfection of the matrix.)

My 2 cents. 😉

What a pointless complication of a simple concept! it was just a perfect world and it did not work. The Mother did not, in any case, have any input until after the SECOND Matrix so the Eve allegory fails.

Every single point Serpent makes can be more easily explained WITHOUT the real world being in the Matrix and already has been done so in this thread so please read threads thoroughly before posting.

But that's just it, I think the fundamental point of these movies is about the subject of FATE, DESTINY, and PRE-DETERMINATION.

Specifically, what is the difference between a Human consciousness, and an Algorithm?

As the Merovinginian states ... "it's all just cause and effect"

Originally posted by The Serpent
(recall the Oracle is supposedly “an intuitive “program” designed to seek out those who rejected the perfection of the matrix.)

My 2 cents. 😉

By saying that your saying the Oracle is the "mother" I don't think she is myself.

What does it being about determinism have to do with whether the world we see in in a Matrix or not?

Why does the difference betwen machine and human intelligence have any bearing on it either? (The main difference, btw, is that machines are created with purpose by design and may become more generic as they exist, whilst humans begin generic but might find a purpose)

Ushgarak said:
What a pointless complication of a simple concept! it was just a perfect world and it did not work. The Mother did not, in any case, have any input until after the SECOND Matrix so the Eve allegory fails.

How is that an over-complication?

According to Genesis God (the Architect) was alone (the sole consciousness/algorithm). He created the world and then he created (or divided and became) Adam and Eve. Depending on how you interpret it, the Oracle (Eve) wouldn’t have come along until the second Matrix.

It's an over-complication because it is an unnecessary allegory. And the Mother (it is dodgy of you to call her the Oracle as that is not yet known) did not come along until Matrix number THREE, as the film itself says, so your allegory fails in any case.

Yeah i've been gone for a second and trying to catch up. Who is Matrixknower and how does he/she know all of this information. Im not saying i don't believe you but you are making some very big statements without any evidence to back you up. Could you maybe elaborate some.

thanks

Well, I only count what Matrixknower says as rough opinion.

well he is stating things that didn't happen in the movie, so either he has a script or some way of getting info or a very overactive imagination.

If its true it would make since and help us get past this more than one matrix thing that i don't believe or see the need for

Oh, Neo as a machine only raises the same amount of awkward points though.

this is true, that is why i want to know if this info can be trusted because it is completly new to me and i thought i had missed something somewhere

Me said:
How is that an over-complication?

According to Genesis God (the Architect) was alone (the sole consciousness/algorithm). He created the world and then he created (or divided and became) Adam and Eve. Depending on how you interpret it, the Oracle (Eve) wouldn’t have come along until the second Matrix.

Ushgarak responded:
It's an over-complication because it is an unnecessary allegory. And the Mother (it is dodgy of you to call her the Oracle as that is not yet known) did not come along until Matrix number THREE, as the film itself says, so your allegory fails in any case.

Since one is male, and the other is female I don’t think my analogy is that much of a stretch, especially in light of the reference to lost era’s (matrixes) which were utopian (yet flawed) by comparison to the present reality.

Do you know who Kurt Godel is by any chance?

Well, there is a big deal with the Architect apparently dismissing the Oracle as the Mother. And no matter what you say your Eve analogy is flawed by the Mother not being there for the first two Matrices.

I'm with you Ush. But we ARE getting off topic here. (Sorry Ush, I know that's your job). Besides, what does a Biblical Analogy have to do with if there's more than one matrix or not?

There is only one matrix. I've proved myself several times in this thread, and disproved many of the arguments supporting the idea that there is more than one matrix.