Originally posted by KuRuPT ThanosiForce powers are a part of the duels. Quit trying to dismiss legit wins because you're upset over it. Kenobi was unbalanced and fled from Maul despite him just getting new robotic legs.
Incorrect as usual short smush face Quan. Maul NEVER got the better of Kenobi without force powers when Kenobi was ready. Never, ever did that happen. As a padawan Kenobi was getting the better of the saber fight as he partially disarmed Maul, while Maul could gain NO advantage without the force push. Being that this is sabers only... and Kenobi was only a padawan there.. while Maul was much more trained and experienced... It's quite clear Kenobi is above Maul is sabers only combat.Even in the Savage and Maul vs. Kenobi fight... Again he still wasn't a master yet and was still getting the DECISIVE advantage over Maul and Savage. The ONLY way Maul got Kenobi off of him was AGAIN via a force push... which isn't a part of this thread. God it's so easy tooling you in thread after thread shorty.
Lastly, it wasn't a surprise attack... Maul was LOOKING DIRECTLY AT HIM. He watched him fly up the shaft.. call the sword and couldn't do a damn thing about it. He wasn't skilled enough or fast enough to react to the move by Kenobi, a padawan Kenobi at that. It was a pitiful display by Maul losing to a Padawan. Kenobi owns him in sabers, and easily so shorty.
Maul bfrd him. Earlier he was unable to best Opress with Anakin's help. Ventress even temporarily got the better of Anakin and Kenobi with a force choke. Your ignorance is condemning.
It caught him by surprise the entire maneuver. He still survived and killed Kenobi's ex *****.
Maul still lives at the moment, noob.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Force powers are a part of the duels. Quit trying to dismiss legit wins because you're upset over it. Kenobi was unbalanced and fled from Maul despite him just getting new robotic legs.Maul bfrd him. Earlier he was unable to best Opress with Anakin's help. Ventress even temporarily got the better of Anakin and Kenobi with a force choke. Your ignorance is condemning.
It caught him by surprise the entire maneuver. He still survived and killed Kenobi's ex *****.
Maul still lives at the moment, noob.
Incorrect as usual. If you stuck around long enough in the star wars forum before running with your tail tuck between your legs.. you'd know these are the standard stipulations of a Star Wars fight. It goes:
1. Saber
2. Force powers
3. All out
Force push is not apart of the saber only fight. He asked who the best duelist is.. not who the best ALL OUT fighter is. Damn it gets old owning you in every thread you post in. I mean literally.
Thus, since this is who the best duelist thread... force powers don't apply. Thus, we can safely say, Kenobi is CLEARLY above Maul. Here are how the feats break down
Kenobi
1. Beat maul as a Padawan and turned him into a pint sized midget
2. Beat Anakin, who is leagues above Maul in EVERY single category
3. Beat The General
Maul
1. Beat Jinn
and... and.... NOTHING
This fight isn't close. You're better off using Padawan or council member Kenobi vs. Maul... At least that would be an okay fight. Using Master Kenobi, is a stomp on Kenobi's part over Maul. He has the better wins and feats compared to maul. The gap is HUGE. Kenobi owns Maul... OWNS HIM NASTY. Maul never turned Kenobi into a pint sized midget, Kenobi did. Maul was so weak and useless he couldn't react to Kenobi's move in time. Pitiful.
Originally posted by KuRuPT ThanosiThey are all taken in two account in their duels. Dooku owned Kenobi with the force yet you have no problem accepting that either. Kenobi never bested him with his saber anyways outside of him dropping his guard. He took Kenobi and and Qui on at a the same time.
Incorrect as usual. If you stuck around long enough in the star wars forum before running with your tail tuck between your legs.. you'd know these are the standard stipulations of a Star Wars fight. It goes:1. Saber
2. Force powers
3. All outForce push is not apart of the saber only fight. He asked who the best duelist is.. not who the best ALL OUT fighter is. Damn it gets old owning you in every thread you post in. I mean literally.
Thus, since this is who the best duelist thread... force powers don't apply. Thus, we can safely say, Kenobi is CLEARLY above Maul. Here are how the feats break down
Kenobi
1. Beat maul as a Padawan and turned him into a pint sized midget
2. Beat Anakin, who is leagues above Maul in EVERY single category
3. Beat The GeneralMaul
1. Beat Jinn
and... and.... NOTHINGThis fight isn't close. You're better off using Padawan or council member Kenobi vs. Maul... At least that would be an okay fight. Using Master Kenobi, is a stomp on Kenobi's part over Maul. He has the better wins and feats compared to maul. The gap is HUGE. Kenobi owns Maul... OWNS HIM NASTY. Maul never turned Kenobi into a pint sized midget, Kenobi did. Maul was so weak and useless he couldn't react to Kenobi's move in time. Pitiful.
Grevious was a joke. Kenobi needed his force powers and a gun to win. Weak. You dismiss maul force powers but then cite Kenobi winning with them. Hypocrisy 101. Anakin isn't above Maul at all. Kenobi failed to best Jango Fett. Maul killed Pre Vizsla. 😂
Maul also had Kenobi flee from combat with him in their first duel in the clone wars. Canon, boy. Maul is better skilled, angrier, and more in control of using his aggression to decimate the foe than Kenobi whow as unbalanced by Maul in canon.
Nope, Maul never beat Kenobi via Saber combat. On the other hand, Kenobi partially disarmed Maul and later turned him into a pint sized midget.
Incorrect as usual
1. Sabers
2. Force powers
3. All out
Those are the categories. This is a saber only fight. Maul got owned, Kenobi did not. A Padawan Kenobi at that. Master Kenobi would make short work of Maul. It wouldn't even be a fight.
Now list the movie feats of Maul
Kenobi beat people better than Maul. It's hilarious you say Anakin isn't above Maul... HE'S DECISIVELY above Maul. They aren't even close in power and formidability. Anakin shits all over maul. Him beating Dooku is EXPONENTIALLY better than anybody Maul has beat. Name me a feat of Maul better than beating Dooku? Go ahead try? You can't, guess what Kenobi beat himi. Which again makes Kenobi (by feats) VASTLY above Maul
Originally posted by KuRuPT ThanosiKenobi fled from combat. That's a loss. Maul was overconfident but didn't die. That's fine. He had to take on two Jedi and killed his shitty master.
Nope, Maul never beat Kenobi via Saber combat. On the other hand, Kenobi partially disarmed Maul and later turned him into a pint sized midget.Incorrect as usual
1. Sabers
2. Force powers
3. All outThose are the categories. This is a saber only fight. Maul got owned, Kenobi did not. A Padawan Kenobi at that. Master Kenobi would make short work of Maul. It wouldn't even be a fight.
Now list the movie feats of Maul
Kenobi beat people better than Maul. It's hilarious you say Anakin isn't above Maul... HE'S DECISIVELY above Maul. They aren't even close in power and formidability. Anakin shits all over maul. Him beating Dooku is EXPONENTIALLY better than anybody Maul has beat. Name me a feat of Maul better than beating Dooku? Go ahead try? You can't, guess what Kenobi beat himi. Which again makes Kenobi (by feats) VASTLY above Maul
Kenobi had to use his force powers to jump back into the fight so that doesn't count either since he relied on them for that and the saber. 😂
You just keep stating things without a shred of proof. Kenobi didn't beat Jango. Cad Bane bested him. That's awful. Ventress had both Kenobi and Anakin at her mercy with force powers. Putrid. Anakin and Kenobi also failed to best Opress. Canon. Cry. 😂
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
What canon feats are you referring to? even if we use all the books in the mythos Vader is no where near Mace level. He became weaker as a swordsman after ROTS. His force powers got better, but since he was so slow now, he became a worse swordsman. So no, in the mythos that isn't true at all. However, this is movies only an Mace is clearly above him.Stop saying Vaapad is an amp. IT'S HIS DAMN LIGHTSABER FORM NOT AN AMP. Just like Kenobi uses Soresu. That is his form not some external amp he doesn't always have. I'm sick of having to repeat the same logical stuff over and over with you. Get it through your head... This is a saber fight and thus Mace has Vaapad each and every time.
I'm referring to ones in other source books that wouldn't count here that rank him as best of his time and such, but seeing as this is movies only I see your stance since as of the movies all Vader has as seen on screen done is beat and seemingly lose to Luke, beat Ben Kenobi with with context, while Windu appeared to beat the Empeor who was shown to be about equal to Yoda. Weaker as a swordsman? Not convinced. It's inferred that he would have fought Jedi after ROTS thus would retool his style to adapt to his suit and to compensate for his disadvantages. He only got more skilled, adding more styles to his Arsenal as seen how he added Makashi as seen in ESB, and now he is stronger so Djem So is stronger, as well as him being a dark sider I would say he also added Juyo. See not only has he compensated for his suit, but he is more versatile and skilled in his prime than his ROTS self, as well as more level headed and smarter.
Ok Vaapad is a boost. That would be the more appropriate term for it. If that is your issue than now it's fixed. Now onto its specifics and mechanics, while he may have it each and every time, not to the same effect as he did with Sidious. Even if he fought Sidiosu again he wouldn't get the same boost and do you know why, because of his mindset. When he first fought Sidious that was his prime anger moment and he confronted that anger, after that his mindset would only fall,a mad considering where his power was at being equal to maybe slightly less, he can't afford to lose any. Now to Vader,
1. Vader has the heart of a machine. A stone cold monster, like Dooku is what I'm saying. He's not going to let off as much dark energy like someone like Sidious. He's going to be more tame, and more collected against someone like Windu. He's also going to be cautious since he knows what Windu is capable of.
2. Windus internal anger toward Vader won't be anywhere near as high as it was against Sidious. While Anakin did cut off his arm, that's nothing compared to losing the nearest thing to a "spouse" so to speak in the republic and having everything since you were born torn away from you.
3. The gap in between these two. Ok you and I have been at this for a long time. So let's get Thai straight. Windu is good but without Vaapad he is no where near Sidious/Yoda level. Not a chance in hell. Vader on the other his distance away from that level is at least IMO is far less. So while I'm not saying that Vader is farther above Windu, he is above him when all evidence is looked at.
4. The way Windu defeated Sidious won't work here. Even if Vader were to just let his guard down, Vader is physically strong and durable so he won't be disarmed the same way.
Overall in a pure movies perspective yes Mace woudl be above Vader, I acknowledge that, but when I put the list I used all my knowledge of canon sources that's why I put Vader above Mace, and in a movies perspective I think it's inferred that Vader would be stronger since he's stronger in the force his augmentation is greater, and being endowed with all the disadvantages he would compensate and has done so and is much faster than you or anyone else give him credit for and has in fact taken on fast paced opponents inferred from time against Jedi masters during the purge.
Kurupt, Vaapad is clearly an amp, in the novelization, Windu states its the only reason he was able to match the Emperor in saber fighting.
As far as this old round and round goes, I've made my point clear about Sidious throwing that fight, youre just too pigheaded to see any other point but your own narrow logic. Lucas also says the Emperor was FAKING being weak in that same commentary...
I do agree however that Yoda probably had the advantage when it came to sabres vs Sidious because we never see Sidious with it again after he reverts to Force usage in their fight.
Yea most likely is the best swordsman but Obi has the best track record in the films.
It's not an amp.. it's his lightsaber form. Period, end of story. He has it for EACH and EVERY one of his fight. Thus, by definition that is not an amp.
We've gone over this before. You simply can't get around the fact that the VAST majority of proof is on my side bud. It's literally not close. I have the creator of the universe saying he overpowered him and overcame him. You have YOUR speculation of what could've been. My problem is you think those are the same level of proof, when in fact, one crushes the other.
Realisticly it doesn't matter if Sidious threw the fight or not. The fact that there was a boost that affected him in such a state that it was made clear that while the style is there for his disposal, the height of which it would elevate him would be unknown but most defintlly not to that level ever again.
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
It's not an amp.. it's his lightsaber form. Period, end of story. He has it for EACH and EVERY one of his fight. Thus, by definition that is not an amp.We've gone over this before. You simply can't get around the fact that the VAST majority of proof is on my side bud. It's literally not close. I have the creator of the universe saying he overpowered him and overcame him. You have YOUR speculation of what could've been. My problem is you think those are the same level of proof, when in fact, one crushes the other.
Stop Ok. Stop being stupid. Ok we get your point you get ours, point is there is proof on both sides. Official site shows ambiguity about the fight and Lucas words in all honesty can be translated either way. All he did was describe what we saw onscreen and if he didn't say it nothing changes. Point is it doesn't matter as Sidious is still better with the blade and the force and it's made clear that Mace isn't the best of the Jedi, that title belongs to Yoda.
Yes Mace was able to go toe toe with Sidious in that instance. Guess what in that one instance where it's made abundantly clear it will never happen again. You know that. Don't be an idiot. This isn't about if he threw the fight or not, this is about best deulist. Guess what Sidious is better due to the fact that Mace needed a special style to just get to that level, so thus Sidious is above Mace and Yoda by himself was able to disarm Sidious however with certain circumstances on his side.
I've already explained Vaapad to you.